Talk:Demonic Spiders

There's a giant orange warning box that shows up if you try to edit YMMV pages that threatens an instant ban for removing entries. I wanted to fact-check some stuff over in the X-COM article and got said box, so I'm here asking first.

1) Can I fact-check wrong gameplay mechanics? Somebody gave the wrong numbers for a Demonic Spider enemy's stats (I don't dispute that it's a Demonic Spider) and I want to fix them.

2) Can I remove an entry if it blatantly doesn't fit the criteria of a Demonic Spider? A Demonic Spider is a mook that's harder than usual; there's an enemy listed on X-COM's page that literally appears only alongside enemies that directly outclass it (no playstyle dependence - one is basically the same unit but tougher and the other is basically the same unit with an added ability that has its own Demonic Spiders entry) and is in general fairly mediocre for the point in the game where you encounter it.

Wow! A user who actually reads the edit warnings! Usually when we deal with YMMV issues we see things like "uh, I didn't see the big bright orange box, I just didn't notice it". It's so gratifying that you actually have read it and had questions. So I'll do my best to answer them for you.

1) You can certainly fact-check an entry -- although if correcting the original entry would invalidate the the basis for the opinion, you should put the correction and any explanation in a subpoint. This is someplace where Thread Mode would be okay -- indeed, welcome.

2) As for this one, I would say no. Even if objectively the enemy is demonstrably weaker and not to be considered a real threat, it's obvious that the user who wrote had difficulty that he attributed to them. That's a valid opinion clearly based on a different level of experience and/or skill with the game. You can feel free to dispute it, but you can't simply delete it. Again, Thread Mode is okay here.

I'm going to CC in the other admins, just in case someone has different or better advice for you, but I'm pretty sure you're not going to see anything directly contradicting this.

Thanks for asking!

-- Looney Toons

CC: @Labster, @GethN7, @Robkelk, @QuestionableSanity, @Derivative, @SelfCloak

I've played the modern X-COM games, so if the entries discuss those games, hit me up and we can hash out what should stay, go, or simply be modified as appropriate.

It's regarding Terror From the Deep, the second game in the original series. The entry is regarding Bio-Drones.

I think the entry got in there because Bio-Drones are basically a rehash of Cyberdiscs from the original (UFO: Enemy Unknown), which most certainly qualify for Demonic Spider status. There are a couple of problems with the analogy, though: 1) Cyberdiscs are mostly scary because they show up really early on (potentially as early as the first month), while Bio-Drones only show up from month 4 onward, 2) TFTD is harder than UFO - much harder - and I feel that raises the bar.

Bio-Drones are not really a weak enemy - they've got a ton of health and they do have a gun - but they don't have armour/damage resistance combinations that render whole swathes of weapons useless (Lobster Men, Triscenes and Xarquid all do), they don't have psionics to take over your soldiers from anywhere on the map (Tasoths and Aquatoids do), and they don't have the instant-kill-and-spawn-a-copy attack of Tentaculats. They also only show up alongside either Lobster Men or Tasoths - which both also have a ton of health and guns of roughly equal power, in addition to the nasty attributes mentioned above. The only unique attribute of Bio-Drones is that they explode when killed, which would be really nasty if they showed up early - but armour totally negates the damage (armour is damage reduction in old X-Com), and you probably have armour by the time they show up (they also don't explode if killed in melee, which is the big place you'd worry about them exploding anyway).

(Also, the entry on the X-COM/YMMV page consists solely of them allegedly having high reactions and perfect Accuracy. They do have perfect accuracy on the highest difficulty (although Triscenes do as well, and lots of other aliens come very close), but Bio-Drones' reactions are in fact the worst of any alien in all of TFTD.)

I wholeheartedly agree with the mentions of Lobster Men and Tentaculats as Demonic Spiders in TFTD; I'd not have objected to Tasoths, Xarquid or Triscenes either. Bio-Drones... I'm just not seeing any reason you'd ever be scared of them specifically (the missions they show up on are really hard, because they're full of Tasoths or Lobster Men, but that's not attributable to Bio-Drones).

The entry I was talking about fixing is Chryssalids from UFO: Enemy Unknown - the entry said they had 60-80 Time Units (11-16 squares of movement before an attack), while in fact they have a much scarier 110-127 (23-28 squares of movement before an attack). Obviously, this doesn't undermine the rationale for them being Demonic Spiders. Magic9mushroom (talk) 08:21, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

I see, that is a pretty convincing rationale. On the first one, I'd correct it to mention who more accurately counts as the trope while noting how Bio-Drones are not nearly as dangerous by comparison with the reasons you outlined.

As to the second, makes sense, in terms of objective fact that should be corrected.