Shin Megami Tensei/WMG

Everything About Fiction You Never Wanted to Know.


Lucifer fell because Philemon had shown him the truth about YHWH.

The way it would appear, this being Megaten and all, is that Lucifer never truly fell. He just was like a protagonist who got to know a thing or two about God, namely that he hit the reset button every time he got bored. He likely decided to stop that lunacy but was overpowered in the process so he started planning. First, we get the first game where he isn't very mature about what he can do and just wants to screw up the game God set up, then we get the second game where he learns a few things and fakes his redemption in the eye of YHWH to get the dragon but fails again and the world is reseted, then we get to the third game where he got a few millenia to think about his plan and created a demon with the heart and will of a human to see if can be a feasable option,and then as it proves very good indeed he gives some of his powers to him after he has proven capable of holding his own against Lucifer,and they start the second rebellion,where it would appear in the probable SMT 5, and then if they win and the universe isn't screwed again we get to the Persona series.

YHVH is the player

  1. YHVH destroys the world whenever it doesn't go his way. The player loads save data whenever the world doesn't go his way ( Often, given the series' difficulty).
  2. YHVH does this to more than one world, that is other video games the player plays.
  • So that makes his goal . . . to defeat himself??
    • After beating the game, the player puts it down, and thus that world is saved from future reloads.
      • No, later, the player starts a new game, resetting the world, because they're bored.

The key nail for the various games happening is that Atlus is a Mega Corp

Nocturne has Atlus in the soft drink business explicitly. The rest of the games put Atlus/Jack Frost everywhere.

Kamala is a diclonius soul

  • Think about it:
    • She has cat-like ears (horns?) on her head.
    • She hates humans, calling them more cruel than demons.
    • Her soul color is pink.

Gabriel fell into a Drowned Spring Of Girl in between Shin Megami Tensei I and Shin Megami Tensei II

  • In Shin Megami Tensei I, Gabriel was male. In Shin Megami Tensei II, Gabriel is female. I don't think gender change was a coincidence.
    • The reason Gabriel is depicted as female is because of art of said angel having a feminine face.

Persona 5 will prominently feature the Seraphs (Michael, Gabriel, Uriel and Raphael).

  • Time to lay this one out. We know that, thanks to SMT If, Thor didn't nuke Japan in the Devil Summoner / Persona universe. And afterward, in Devil Summoner and Soul Hackers, most of the Abyss demons from SMT 1 and 2 got taken care of... but Team Seraph was conspicuous only in their total absence. If they were supposed to be around in SMT 1, but SMT 1 didn't happen in the Persona timeline... then where'd they go? Note that Persona 1 and 2 feature a fight against, basically, the personification of Chaos. Persona 3 and 4 are all about fighting the "negative", fatalistic aspects of Neutrality. It's about time thematically to take on Law, and an appearance by the Seraphs would tie up a lot of loose ends in the timeline if handled right.
    • Consider this: In 3, almost all of yours allies' personas are from either Greek, Roman, or Egyptian Mythology. In persona 4, they came from japanese mythology. I'm going to go ahead and suppose all the personas in 5 are going to be Judeo-christian figures.
    • Given that Ally Persona differ from the standard designs, any hope of seeing the "mass of eyes with eye covered wings" cherub and co?
      • And the final boss will be Metatron in all his 36-winged and million-eye-covered glory.
    • There's still Norse mythology, so I'm hoping for both Judeo-Christian and Norse Personas for the MCs.
    • It may feature other Angels as well. The other main Arch Angels of Judaism, Roman Catholic, Islam, Eastern Orthodox, and even Zoroastrians equivalent of Arch Angels appearing as minor bosses or flunkies during the main boss battles. Remiel could even show up and be the voice of reason amongst them during the events of game. While minor Angels that have never been in the series before and the Nine Orders we have seen throughout the series appear alongside Shadows during battle. The Final Battle could even be a teamup of Michael, Metatron, and Satan with them fusing together after they get beaten to become the final boss.
      • Or they could pull a Majin Tensei II scenario and have Ahriman (Zoroasterian Devil) as the final boss. Either that or Mikaboshi (Which would make sense as it wants the universe to return to nothingness where it can reign once more.)
      • The four allies will use the Seraphs as Personas. The MC will use either YHVH, Satan, or Metatron. The final boss will be Lucifer, Metatron, or YHVH respectively.

Persona 5 is caused by an attempt to save P3MC by implementing Law/Shijima

Having no self would definitely stop people from wishing for death. It also fits well with the above.

  • Who's going to try to implement it? Elizabeth?

Dr. Victor is a time lord

He is alive as early as the 1920s and as late as 20 minutes into the future and appears younger in Soul Hackers.

Lifestones are rich in Magnetite

Digital Devil Saga states
1.All things contain some amount of Magnetite.
2.Demons need Magnetite to survive.
Why do you think demons want them so badly in negotiation?

The "YHVH" seen so far (except possibly in Devil Survivor) is an impostor

Devil Survivor uses the quartet of Remiel, Izuna, Sariel, and Anael rather than the normal group of Micheal, Gabriel, Raphael and Uriel (and in SMT 2 all but Gabriel was already working for the demiurge) and not to mention the attitude 180 suggest the DS God is separate from the "normal" "god" from older games.

    • Jossed, at least as far as Devil Survivor is concerned. In Naoya's Eight Day, Metatron shows up in person and acts pretty much exactly like YHVH usually does in YHVH's name. After losing to Abel, he attempts to summon Michael, Gabriel, Raphael and Uriel to nuke Earth but is interrupted.

The fourth great summoner/Kuzunoha will appear in an upcoming title

We know there are four, but only the Raidou, Kyouji and Geirin lines get named, while number 4 is suspiciously absent...

  • Perhaps it's Naoto? She just doesn't have the same last name because of family marriages.

Strange Journey is the prequel to the entire Megaten 'verse

There seems to be a comprehensive lack of rapport or understanding between humans and demons, and the Schwarzwelt itself seems more like an initial expression of confusion or mockery at the things humans rely on or prize. Meantime, the DEMONICA could easily be a tactical-to-practical prototype for the COMPs seen in later games, what with its comparatively cumbersome appearance. Depending on how things go, this could lead into If... which then leads either into the normal SMT series or the Persona series...or it could just lead directly into SMT I with If... just an unrelated side story leading directly to the Persona series.

The reason why God Is Evil in the early Megaten games is because of Mem Aleph.

It goes with the above theory that Strange Journey is a prequel to the SMT series, as YHVH doesn't really seem to mind so many people opposing him, and would rather let his subordinates do most of the work. Ever notice how Mem Aleph's role is pretty much the same as YHVH's in this game, except in the opposite faction? Notice how Lucifer does next to nothing in this game besides spark the people's rebellion, instead of the subtle manipulation he usually uses? And where are the Archangels in all of this? My theory is that Mastema also had a hand in this, as he wasn't exactly following YHVH's orders for the greater good. Frustrated with the MC's victory over him, he strikes a deal with Mem Aleph to overthrow YHVH and rule together as one being. Thus we have the YHVH that has both Mastema's hostility and Mem Aleph's role as regular destroyer of the world, and made the Archangels to be their personal Lickspittle.

  • It's more than implied that Bonus Boss Demiurge and Metatron from those two NG+ quests are God. What with being called Pieces of God and it's stated by the Piece taking Metatrons form that God forgot his love for humans. So God is already evil before this happens. Heck even if you help him but aren't Law aligned he makes it very clear that he's going to punish you one day just to show how much of a Ungrateful Bastard he is.

YHVH is becoming more and more of a positive figure due to the events at the climaxes of Persona2, Persona3 and Persona4

He is almost certainly shaped in personality by the minds of his worshippers; this is why Word of God has stated that his evilness early on in the series isn't his fault- its due to the corruption of humanity. However, as the timeline goes on and the cycle of events where most of the more recent games take place occur, Nyarlathotep is defeated, the Great Seal is formed, and the Fog of Deceit is lifted from the collective unconscious. Each of these either reduce the amount of sinfulness in human nature, or simply reduce the amount flowing into YHVH via mystic channels, as negative emotion coalesces less and less with each success. This is the reason he's such a more positive figure in Devil Survivor. Presumably, such was Philemon's plan all along.

YHVH is becoming more and more Good because He finally died for once

Work with me here, since I'm going on bits and pieces from what I can understand of the series mythos (I unfortunately have not played/beaten all the games)

Anyway, If I recall correctly, Part of the reason that YHVH became so psychotically corrupt is because he didn't enter the cycle of reincarnation like all the other Daemons/Spirits of the series. However, at the end of SMT 2 He was effectively killed by the hero, who was later punished for Deicide. You can't very well kill an immortal, especially a true blue one, but he somehow did it and YHVH Died for a period of time. But Then he came back. Assuming that the reincarnation rules work out that you essentially start out neutral and then move on to whatever alignment you support/came from/who you were in the past. As YHVH is the BIG leader of Law and Order He pretty much had no choice BUT to go back to that position. However in being reincarnated he had seen the horrible horrible HORRIBLE things he had done so many times. As a result, he's no longer the Evil Leader of Law and Order but still the leader. He supports for the most part the things they are doing, but he's finding the extremes they go to less and less acceptable. So he's ordering a rule change and it's taking time for it to get down to everyone (it would surprise me little to find that the Law Side was something of a bureaucracy) and in the mean time, well...He still signed off on the order for killing the world and it would be wrong to NOT do so, rules and all, but beyond a point, well...no. Unacceptable. We're not doing it this way anymore guys.

Or at least so frequently.

  • Except YHVH was killed at the end of Megami Tensei II as well, and he is apparently at his worst in the later SMTII. How does that work with your theory?
  • The Three Wise Men, Mastema and most of the angels you speak to, most of them in Sector Grus, are fervent idealists who believe in The Evils of Free Will and think a World of Silence is the magical response for everything wrong on Earth in Strange Journey. I find it too hard to believe such echelons are still willing to defy YHWH's will even if the outcome is exactly what they were planning on. Even if they succeed, what are they going to do? Go to the Big Man Upstairs and show him how they've washed clean the slate he wanted to preserve, all the while with a smile on their faces?
    • If everyone in the Vortex World is either dead, a Manikin, or believes in themselves as God, doesn't Demi-fiend's deicide become permanent?

Persona 3DS is actually an remake of if...

Guardians will be re-worked into Persona, and released as "Shin Megami Tensei if... - Persona 0" or something to that effect, using the Persona 4 engine with Negotiation instead of the flying cards. Two more companions will be added (one for each gender to give reason to play as both), more Guardians, and a choice between the original soundtrack or a J-pop soundtrack ala the Persona2 remake.

  • This sounds like such an improbable idea, yet I want it so bad. And I want Call Forward moments in Tamaki's route a la P3P.
    • The five party members are Tamaki/Tadashi, Charlie, Yumi, Akira and Reiko.

Angels hate Humanity so much because we are essentially an experiment to create a slave race that Went Horribly Wrong.

In Devil Survivor, we learn YHWH placed a shard of the demon king Bel within his favored son, Abel. Before that, humans were the lowest caste of angels, created to be workers or laborers, a slave race for the higher-ups. YHWH, originally not such a bastard, began dicking around with demon energies and unlocked the capability for greater strength, more devotion and higher intellect when adding Bel's energies to the genepool, trying to improve upon the original design. Lucifer was just an angel then, and happened to notice the changes and decided it was wrong to treat humans as slaves, seeing they could be their equals or superiors if given the chance. His opinions sat very badly for everybody else in Heaven; he was expelled, and created the Chaos side.

YHWH's experiments backfired massively when Cain committed the first wilful murder, starting a chain that embittered everybody in Heaven as Humanity slowly started drifting away from pure Light-Law into Neutral, and some into Dark and Chaos, to their horror and Lucifer's bewilderment (who'd thunk his greatest enemies would create such strong warriors for him?), naturally expelling them to Earth, where the remains of Bel's power in the blood of humans were splintered even more as humans used their collective faith to pour that power into creating the series' entire pantheons, mythological figures and monsters, making them dependant upon humanity for belief and power; this became a source of even greater horror at Heaven when the first humans began seeing YHWH as a dick or worse and their belief made it so through the power of Bel.

It came to bite the old gods on the ass when they were finally forced to retreat or vanish into Humanity's subconscious when upon its enlightenment and advance of civilization humanity denied its magical potential. Comments from the angels in Strange Journey in Sector Grus make it clear the angels want us to obey and serve them. Mastema clearly sees humans as tools and often preachs against The Evils of Free Will and gladly empowers Zelenin, who's essentially played doormat for him at all times. Angels in virtually every game (Metatron comes to mind) are repulsed by Humanity and boss humans as much as they want. YHWH, now on full-blown bastard mode, now can only think of humans as the miserable little nothings he made them as and refuses to accept He failed at any point most of the time.

He did soften up a bit in Devil Survivor, as the result of the sealing of Nyx and the defeat of Izanami, reducing the negative energy he's being fed, seeing there might be something worth rescuing on humans... but obviously He was back to his old self in Strange Journey. Therefore, the Persona series comes before Shin Megami Tensei and not afterwards, with Devil Survivor next, then Strange Journey, with the Neutral ending in which humanity didn't learn anything and precipitated the conditions for the apocalypses ravaging the Earth in Shin Megami Tensei's series, in which every hero seems to have an affinity for hitting the Reset Button in Neutral endings in I and II, then IMAGINE; this last one returned control of Earth to humanity, letting it all culminate on Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne, which is the final battle for dominion of all with the destruction of Kagutsuchi and the end of all time.

Humans Are Special and Humans Are the Real Monsters, indeed.

This is the plot of the next Shin Megami Tensei game

It just makes too much sense.

SMT is "rated M for Mara"--that is, the only reason the less violent games still get M-ratings is because of Mara.

Devil Survivor has arguably one of the more horrifying premises in the series, yet it only got a T-rating. Mara is absent in this game. Meanwhile, Strange Journey, while not much more violent, is rated M. Mara puts in an appearance.

Persona 5's class trip will be to Tsukigata Village

Only it is using its history of assassination (and possibly the King Abaddon incident) as a Tourist Trap.

The info on the Conception given in Nocturne is largely false

Every single bit of it comes from Lucifer or a direct servant (Lady in Black). He already tells one major lie (that the Candelabrum were stolen). His motive for doing so is pretty clear (create a powerful champion for his army). Hijiri is alive because he made it in the front door on time, not because he is Aleph.

  • No dice. Lucifer's not the only source on the Conception info. Hijiri supports the Lady in Black's explanation just as you meet him in the first Terminal Room in the hospital's basement. And Hikawa and Yuko's limited understanding of the Conception jibes with the Lady's explanation, too. Not to mention Lucifer had absolutely no reason to lie about Aradia, who in her own actions again confirms the Lady's stories. Unfortunately, it's more a case of More Than Mind Control than an outright lie. Lucifer does not lie per se - he will happily tell you the unvarnished truth (just as long it's the part of the truth he wants you to hear).
    • Yuko and Hikawa info could ALSO come from him. I also never said it was entirely false, some details (there is a multiverse, possibly with other worlds undergoing a Conception at differing times) could be true.
      • ...what's left then for him to lie about?

The flaw of the universe began as a result of the schism between YHVH and Mem Aleph

When pursuing the free-the-Demiurge quest, a female voice—Mem Aleph, given that you've shut down the remaining female archons of the Schwarzwelt—implores you not to free the father of the Schwarzwelt. Well, given that Mem Aleph is the mother of the place, as it were, there's an implication that YHVH (which Demiurge is a component of) and Mem Aleph were once co-creators. Or, better still, once the same entity. Unfortunately, something happened to split the original Neutral entity into law-elemental YHVH and chaos-elemental Mem Aleph...who suddenly regarded each other as anathema, with the Schwarzwelt's possibility-swath as their initial battlefield of choice. Both were planning to use it for the same purpose, to "purify" the now-defiled (to them) world of its taint. Mem Aleph is arguably in the lead, but only because she's been successfully keeping it roughly slanting towards her purpose of Law-abolition.

The notable point here is that the angels don't have a high opinion of humanity...but neither do Mem Aleph & Co., who think humans will only be "good" once they've been transfigured into demons. Law and spirit are probably both meant to have been as ancient as creation, thus originally both seen as good by whatever created it. Unfortunately, now it seems only humans and a select few Light-aligned characters share that opinion. Both parts of the creator have turned on the creation, because both have lost their original combined wisdom. And yet...what caused that to happen? {looks at Lucifer} You got anything to say on what happened, or do we turn to Abraxas?

  • Personally don't believe that the female voice is Mem Aleph as even the chaos route she does not call herself by name. Instead saying that if your spirit aligns with the Mother of the Earth to turn back. Regardless it should be known that Mem Aleph has been with the earth since the beginning. As all organic and demonic life originated from her. Even demons and the Mothers do not deny this. But YHVH and his Angels appeared later and with them came mankind. He was in fact just another God amongst many back in day before worship of him allowed him to become as powerful as he does. Both Mem Aleph and the Angels treat as being created by her and YHVH with Mem Aleph creating the human soul and YHVH most likely creating the rest. The earth being tainted according to them isn't completely wrong either as Gore will admit after regaining his senses that mankind brought the Schwarzwelt upon itself. The Schwarzwelt being used as a battlefield between the Angels and Demons has not shown any signs of happening in the past either. As Mem Aleph succeeded in cleansing the sinful civilizations and intelligent life that came before mankind in ages past and the Three Wise Men treat is as them getting what they deserved for their sins.
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