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Values Dissonance/Real Life: Difference between revisions
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* Age gaps in marriage partners have been seen different ways by different cultures in different periods.
** This can be seen in depictions of the Nativity; in paintings of the Nativity or Holy Family dating from the Renaissance and earlier, Joseph is much older than Mary. In more recent images, they're the same age.
** In many Middle Eastern cultures, the [[May
** Sometimes, it's the ages of the people in question that make it Values Dissonance. If a couple is 25 and 40, it's considered odd, whereas if they're 35 and 50, it's not as big a deal.
** A story reported on [http://www.oddee.com/ Oddee] told of a man, somewhere in the Middle East or Africa, who married a young woman. The young woman was seventeen or so at the time of the marriage, but the man? ''In his nineties.'' He said [[Squick|he'd decided to marry her when she was a young child and was waiting for her to be old enough]]. This is quite shocking for Western audiences.
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* The Romans did not like Christianity one bit. It wasn't fear of something new or contempt for the poor that made Tacitus call the Christians "notoriously depraved"; it was mainly their refusal to perform sacrifices, which to a Roman was the equivalent of modern-day flag-burning. Or worse: many Romans believed that if humans failed to perform sacrifices the gods would destroy the earth via earthquakes, volcanoes, plagues, and other disasters. They also assumed that Christians believed that their religion was ancient and thought it ''hilarious'' to mock and belittle them on the issue.
** The Romans also felt that Jews and Christians were probably the most intolerant religion ever, since they did not accept other gods as real.
** Romans also believed that Christians performed [[Brother
*** That's just the tip of the iceberg. The Roman rumor mill managed to combine the Christian practice of calling their savior "the baby Jesus" (which despite popular belief isn't a carryover from Christmas, but a reference to his child-like innocence) and their eating the "body and blood of Christ" during communion, and led Romans to think Christians ceremonially killed and ate babies.
**** Which makes it all more [[Ironic]] that blood libel became a very common accusation against Jews in Medieval (and early modern) Europe.
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** An older reason actually predates Stalinism. Socialism in the US faced huge difficulties because of confusion with the Anarchist movement and with violence. The [[Mc Namara]] brothers bombing of the LA times in 1910 virtually destroyed the party in California when the Socialist became the main opposition party in California.
** There's also an assumed correlation in the United States between socialism and hostility to religion, or at least secularism. In Europe, though, quite a few socialist parties are openly Christian.
* You can see something similar with the word "fascism" - no one in the post WWII era defines that word in a way that includes something that they support. Many on the left use it to describe extreme right-wing policies, many libertarians use it to describe a high level of government involvement in business, and many gun rights advocates use it to describe firearms controls. This is fairly similar to [[
* "Communist" is an even graver insult in the U.S., while in much of Europe (especially Italy, France and Cyprus), communist parties enjoy mainstream popularity, but it's an even more grave insult in Eastern Europe.
* The definition of the term "liberal" varies enormously depending on the precise political/economic.geographic context. In the US and Canada, "liberal" means generally left-of center, while in Europe it often means something more right-of-center or libertarian. As mentioned above, North Americans are likely to view liberalism as some sort of precursor to socialism, while Europeans may view it as the most viable ''alternative'' to socialism. However, on both continents, "liberal" is also frequently used to refer to a generally free-market economic system (a "liberal economy") or general permissiveness ("he had a liberal attitude towards immigration.")
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** In Cook's defense, violence in films, even down to the simplest punch, is completely simulated. Sex scenes are only simulated inasmuch as there's no penetration, but things like kissing and fondling are very real, and it's perfectly rational for a religious person to not want to let someone who's nothing more than a co-worker do those things to her.
* Aztec religion tends to horrify people from most other cultures, given that it involved an incredible number of [[Human Sacrifice|Human Sacrifices]], often in very gory ways.<ref>[[Beat Still My Heart|Ripping out hearts]] was a perpetual favorite</ref> However, from their perspective, this was absolutely necessary to prevent [[The End of the World As We Know It]], and as such people who were sacrificed wound up in one of the nicer heavens.
* In Eastern European countries, if a cop harasses you for anything milder than a killing spree he probably just wants a handout. So bribing is considered very normal and part of the system (think of it as being like tipping). In Western countries bribing a policeman seems grossly [[Screw the Rules, I Have Money|privileged]] and corrupt. There was some kerfuffle about an athlete of Polish origin who tried to bribe the cops to help out his friend (who was having a party in the hotel and things got out of hand). From an Eastern perspective he was just being a good friend.
* This is perhaps the biggest reason why Liu Shan is such a [[Base Breaker]] even today. When Wei laid siege to Nanzhong, at the end Liu Shan chose to surrender. This action is seen as the actions of either a man [[Know When to Fold Em|who chose to protect his people from possible death than continuing a war that could not be won]] or [[Suck Sessor|a disgrace to his legacy who]] [[Shoot the Shaggy Dog|rendered the sacrifices and contributions of his father and followers worthless]]. Most of this mindset is enforced by the above mentioned belief of honor (That it's better to die with honor than to live in disgrace) while others believe if Liu Shan was more competent then perhaps Shu would've been the one to unite China. It doesn't help that some materials based on the Three Kingdoms Era portray Liu Shan as incompetent (If not a complete idiot).
* Going to church can be this. In the U.S. South, going to church is something ''everybody'' does. It doesn't matter what they actually do or believe outside of church, come Sunday and Wednesday (for bible study) everybody and their mother is in church. But in other countries (and even in other parts of the U.S.) anybody who goes to church regularly is seen as a bible thumping conservative weirdo. Also, because of everybody going to church, churches are everywhere. In Georgia, it is common to see 3 churches all within a few yards, and also to see churches in strip malls.
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** A white South African immigrant to the United States could technically use the term "African-American". But this Just Isn't Done, except maybe as a joke.
** In many countries where there is little to no black population, "nigger" is commonly used to refer to blacks.
*** Also, some blacks have no problem referring to each other as "nigger," usually in a humorous way (listen to any early [[Richard Pryor]] routine<ref>Pryor did a turnaround and dropped the word from his later routines</ref>), although this is a much-debated topic in the black community. But [[N
** Even in nearby Canada this leads to [[Values Dissonance]]. "African", "African-Canadian", and "Afro-Canadian" are considered quite offensive by most Black Canadians, seeing as over 60% of Canada's black population is of Caribbean ancestry.
*** But weren't the Black populations of the Caribbean islands descended from African slaves in the first place?
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** Ever since 2002, Romanian traffic law has the ''written'' provision that speeding is punishable starting from 10 kph over the speed limit.
** A similar distinction exists in Canada as in America. The speed limits on the highways in Ontario, for instance, are 100 kph, but the flow of traffic may have everyone going 110 or even 120 in some cases. The police won't stop you for this because going with the flow of traffic is considered safe. However, if the flow of traffic is 115 and you're only going at 100 or 105, you'll be ticketed for unsafe driving, and if by some chance everyone is going at the speed limit and you're only doing 80 or 90, you'd better be in the slow-moving lanes where that's acceptable or any cop in the area will give you a ticket. Naturally, going much above the flow of traffic is likely to get you a ticket as well, so it's advisable to pay more attention to your fellow drivers than the speed limit.
* Germany, for example, is actually a little more strict, which is probably why they can trust drivers without written speed limit(s) on the Autobahn. Traffic fines are based on the offender's ''income'', preventing [[Screw the Rules, I Have Money|offenders who're rich enough getting a fine that to them is small, or getting away with no fine due to their status or if they bribed the officer]]. (In some parts of the world, like Qatar, you ''can'' get away with bribing the police.) Also, they have to retake their driver's test whenever they try to get a new license- in America, for example, you get a license, prove that you know how to drive ''once'', and from then on they assume you know how to drive if you haven't gotten any demerits. You only have to pass a vision test to renew a license. In America you practically have to be ''trying'' to lose your license unless you're drunk (driving under the influence charges do ''NOT'' look good anywhere- it suggests a lack of responsibility, which is why it's pretty big when you hear someone running for school board or whatever has had a DUI, or had a child with a DUI).
** It's also more expensive to get a license in Germany than in other parts of the world. The written test is often shown, but is sometimes bypassed if the person taking the test has had a Learner's Permit and proved they passed driver's ed.
** In the U.S., getting a traffic ticket involves not only paying the ticket, but taking the time to get the ticket 'fixed.' Failure to get the ticket fixed means that it goes on a record that can be accessed by insurance companies. Very few people have so much money that they're eager to say [[Screw the Rules, I Have Money]] to a lifetime of higher auto insurance payments. On the other hand, this means that anyone who can't afford to have a lawyer get the ticket fixed is in for a high cost in the long run.
** On the other side, in France the driving license is held for life - inability to remove it altogether pushed the government to impose strict penalties for dangerous driving, including huge fines, license suspension from 3 months to 3 years and even imprisonment.
** Japan ought to be the most extreme case because you have to renew your license every ten years. This includes driving school all over again.
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* People in China often do U-turns on the ''highway''. In most of the world, that's a formula for ''Vehicular Suicide''.
** Tanzania has two-lane highways that are two-way in both lanes.
* [[The Profiler|John Douglas]] wrote, in his book ''Mindhunter'', about being part of a training program that regularly invited officers from overseas. He mentions that the Japanese preferred to send pairs of officers, [[Sempai
* A controversy erupted during an Australia vs India cricket series over Harberjan Singh calling Andrew Symonds a "monkey". Symonds (who has one Afro-Caribbean parent) took it to be a racist comment, while Singh claimed it was innocent mockery. Singh made a counter-complaint about being called a "bastard", a term that is considered extremely mild in Australia, but very insulting in India. There are blogs from several Indian bloggers on why Indians do not understand racism. Examples: [http://2ndlook.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/indians-are-racists-yes/ Racism in India]; [http://diptakirti.blogspot.com/2007/05/indias-complexity-as-multi-cultural.html a list of commonly used jokes and epithets from India. part one] [http://diptakirti.blogspot.com/2007/06/united-colours-of-india-part-deux.html part two]
* Pro Wrestling around the world varies according to perception and style, and wrestlers who work in multiple countries tend to adapt their style to the local brand. In America, at its high-points (in the 50's during television's infancy, the 80's "Hulkamania" era, and the Monday Night Wars era) it was considered an addictive, but cheesy soap opera. At worst, it's a sideshow (at times, literally). Big time wrestling (read: WWE and TNA) tend to be heavily scripted, with emphasis on storyline and "high spots" (big stunts and signature moves).
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** It's exactly the same thing that happens in the USA in regards to Latin American people... except that in the USA, the Latinos can and ''will'' get shot dead in occasions, especially in the conservative states.
** To return to the Irish example, Polish migrants into Northern Ireland ran into a different but potent form of Irish bigotry. Poles coming to Belfast in search of jobs and who were not aware of what might be called ''local sensitivities'' were naive enough to think they could rent houses and flats just ''anywhere'', including Protestant East Belfast. Poland is, along with the Irish Republic, one of the most Roman Catholic countries in the world. This was a disaster waiting to happen. The local morons and psychos, having spent most of the previous thirty-odd years burning native Irish Catholics out of Protestant areas, soon rediscovered old craft skills in the face of a new Fenian threat to their Loyalist sensibilities...
* Australians are notoriously inured to swearing. Just about the only words that cannot be broadcast on radio or television are "cunt" and "fuck", and even then both are allowed on TV post-watershed.<ref>Australia has a couple of watersheds. Essentially, you can say "fuck" as many times as you want past 8:30, and but if you say "cunt" even once, you get bumped... [[What Do You Mean
** Australians in fact get very confused when told by Americans that 'Hell' and 'damn' are mild profanities in the United States.
*** Seems to be similar in Britain. 'Hell' and 'damn' might be viewed as swearing by religious people, but generally they're unremarkable.
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* During her 2009 concert in Bucharest, Romania, (part of the ''Sticky & Sweet Tour''), [http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/aug/28/madonna-booed-at-romania-concert Madonna protested against the discrimination of Gypsies] in Eastern Europe. The crowd of 60,000 fans [[Berserk Button|booed her furiously]].
* Today celebrity divorce and infidelity is par for the course, but when singer Eddie Fisher (Carrie Fisher's dad) divorced Debbie Reynolds to marry [[Elizabeth Taylor]] in [[The Fifties]], the public outrage ruined his career.
* Even the most well-meaning young people who get out of the military and rejoin civilian life may notice that values like [[Nakama|sticking with your buddies not matter what]] and [[The Spartan Way|doing sixty squat-thrusts before 7 a.m.]] aren't so important. Remembering [[Political Correctness Gone Mad|not to tell dirty jokes about fat girls]], especially when [[Dude, Not Funny|you're working as a high school guidance councilor,]] is. This has been [[Flanderization|grossly exaggerated]] in the media, especially with [[The Neidermeyer]] and the [[Shell
* [http://www.cracked.com/article_18603_the-6-worst-parts-being-chinese-not-in-stereotypes.html This] Cracked.com article by a Chinese-American woman about her difficulties with her Chinese heritage. The crowner would have to be the gift-giving portion of "keqi"; one wonders what would happen if the situation were reversed, when the Chinese family discovers that in America refusing gifts is practically a killing insult.
** That is, refusing a gift in such a way it's obvious that you never wanted it or simply don't need it. Thinking "this is too much, you really shouldn't have" is much more acceptable, partly because it speaks to the generosity of the gift-giver. Though even then, a short back in forth resulting in the gift being properly received is also generally expected.
** Gift-giving in America generally zig-zags all over the place, especially in the American South. Thanks to some vestiges of the etiquette of the Antebellum South, when you visit someone's home, it's expected to bring a gift for the host (usually a small token, such as a bunch of flowers or a small baked good, especially if you're visiting to have a meal.) However, thanks to the Appalachian region being continually poverty stricken for decades, randomly giving someone a gift for no apparent reason (''especially'' money) comes across as an act of pity (and generally will offend the one receiving it.)
* Nudity and violence on TV. While many Americans think a child will be scarred for life when confronted with a bare nipple seen for a fraction of a second on TV, they don't have any objections against a show where people are being shot, or otherwise killed. Nor do they have objections against other forms of violence. In many European countries, it's the opposite. Images of violence are considered to be more damaging to children than nudity ([[Germans Love David Hasselhoff|although since most shows shown on TV are made in the US]], even European kids see more violence than anything that could remotely be considered "nudity").
** Other notable dissonances related to this is in Japan, which tends to have both significant amounts of violence and nudity in kids shows which tends to lead a [[What Do You Mean
** Oftentimes both sides will often accuse the other side of being [[Hypocrite|Hypocrites]] and advocating [[Double Standards]], while ignoring the fact that they themselves are actually the [[Hypocrite|Hypocrites]] and [[Double Standard]] advocators as they too are also committing [[Values Dissonance]] (Although you can also say the same for any [[Values Dissonance]] for that matter). This tends to happen a lot even here on [[TV Tropes]] unfortunately.
* Schools. Is there a system of classes (like in Japan or many European countries) or courses (like in America)? Are school uniforms required? Are sports (or other school activities) a big event?
** To provide an example: European viewers might be a little confused when in American shows and High School movies, a big deal is made of sports, cheerleading, the prom and home-coming.
** Likewise, Americans think that uniforms are a solely British, Japanese (and sometimes, Mexican) idea. While a lot of private schools have uniforms, the "uniforms" in question usually seem to be little but strict dress codes (khaki/navy/black pants or skirts with polos of certain colors). Few public schools have uniform policies, and those schools are mostly elementary or middle schools. Uniforms are so rare there that they are thought of as restricting a student's right to freedom of expression.
*** Not only in the US. In Germany even a strict dress code can cause this effect. While most German school regulations feature a clause, about "appropriate clothing", you practically, had to show up shirtless/ in a bikini to actually face any consequences. On the other hand, German history made Germans [[
*** Or, that uniforms in the US are solely for Catholic schools.
** And then there's the whole topic of sex ed in Europe vs. [[Scare
** Respect towards teachers. Granted, this may even vary within a country (private and public schools) or even within one school, but there are still some differences. Some countries (such as the United States) see teachers as mentors and prefer more egalitarian relationships between students and teachers; others (such as France and Japan) see teachers as authority figures who need to be obeyed, not negotiated with, by students. In some countries in the latter group, practices such as students standing up to honor the teacher when s/he enters the room are common - which can seem antiquated and silly to people from countries which prefer the former approach. Think of the one scene in the fourth ''[[Harry Potter]]'' movie, where the French pupils shoot up when their headmaster enters, while the other students stare and even giggle. Conversely, French and Japanese viewers must find the active interest teachers in shows like ''[[Glee]]'' have in their students' personal lives to be bizarre and off-putting.
*** Japanese schools tend to be much more intrusive in the lives of their students than US schools. Teachers regularly do home visits and if a Japanese child gets in trouble with the law, their school is notified before their parents are.
*** This is also true in countries in the Caribbean. West Indian people are often shocked by how "disrespectful" American/Canadian children are towards their teachers. As recently as the '80s, if a student misbehaved in school, he was beaten by the teacher.
*** Cultural attitudes vary about [[Teacher
** Even for how long you went to school varied over the course of history. In many parts of the world today, not finishing high school is quite frowned upon and is associated with lowered job prospects, while as recently as 100 years ago had quite a successful career as a government mechanic despite not having a high school education.
** Students' general attitudes towards cheating. Is it something everybody does, something kind of accepted as long as you really need to pass and don't suddenly end up with the best grade, or is it frowned upon?
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* The controversy in both Mexico and the U.S. about letting both Mexican and American commercial trucks enter both countries. It's because of the great national difference in driving culture, not to mention the fact that neither Mexican nor American drivers wants to be lectured or change their driving habits just to comply with the laws of both nations.
* A saying often attributed to Confucius is "before seeking revenge, dig two graves." Most Westerners interpret it to mean that if you seek revenge, you destroy yourself. One traditional Chinese interpretation was instead that revenge was [[Serious Business|so important]] that one ought to prepare to become the Determinator in order to achieve it.
* Go to any given article which involves a [[Blood Sport|Bullfight]] getting out of control and the bull either wounding the Matador or trying to get into the stands. Generally comments from nations where it is outlawed will congratulate the bull, regarding injuries as three tons of [[Laser
** This is despite the fact that bullfighter bulls are raised much more humanely than slaugherhouse steers.
* What is considered "appropriate dress" can vary wildly even in one country. In some parts of the American South, where temperatures in the summer can frequently surpass 100 degrees Farenheit, the general consensus seems to be "It's too damn hot to cover up," and you can frequently see rather young children wearing things like short shorts and spaghetti strap tops without anybody batting an eye. In other parts of the country, it's usually met with "You're not leaving the house like that, go put some clothes on!"
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[[Category:Values Dissonance]]
[[Category:Real Life]][[Category:Pages with comment tags]]
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