Automoderated users, Autopatrolled users, Bureaucrats, Comment administrators, Confirmed users, Moderators, Rollbackers, Administrators
213,963
edits
Slayers/WMG: Difference between revisions
m
→Gourry is a Prince.
| (6 intermediate revisions by 3 users not shown) | |||
Line 2:
== Meta ==
=== Slayers is really a writeup of someone's RPG. ===
Like [[Dungeons
* Note [[
** The beginning theory is sound, though in a standard Tabletop RPG game everyone levels at about the same rate, Lina's player is just better at manipulating the system if you need a reason for her being more powerful.
=== Slayers is a tale about level 20 mages in a level 1 game ===
It's the impression i've had since day one "Slayers is what happens when a max level party does a nubie run." Lina can curb stomp anything short of a Raid Boss, Sabrinigo was a lvl 5 raidboss intended for a group of 20 1-5s but instead faced a 3 man team of lvl 20s.
Line 14:
== Future events ==
=== Zomelgustar, the entity that Martina is worshiping, is becoming real ===
Though Martina freely admits that Zomelgustar is something she made up herself, the wild magic floating around the Slayers verse can easily center around her rabid faith. She's even Named it already, too; in a few generations, some sorcerer (or sorceress) will be running around casting spells drawn from ol' ZG.
* You may be onto something: Martina once enchanted a magic dagger from "Her own stubborness", and she did manage to, erm, "summon" a lightning storm even though it took a really long time (Unless Xellos was just messing with them). Either way, this could also mean that Martina could be a low-level [[Reality Warper]].
** Given how "imbalanced" things have gotten in the Slayers universe; it's possible this is its way of trying to restore things. The essence of the Mazoku reform around Concepts; one of which Martina is helpfully providing.
** Auntie Aqua of all entities used her crazy talisman once. This may mean "Zomelgustar" works as a wildcard: no proper spirit, dragon- or dark- Lord is specified, so ''any'' force that fits the user's current purpose may manifest, working as black, white or shamanistic magic depending on the force.
=== Having others (Lina) "kill" the pieces of Shabranigdu sealed inside humans is all part of Shabranigdu's [[Xanatos Gambit]] to free itself for good. ===
It's possible that "killing" the fragments of Shabranigdu,, thus freeing them from the reincarnation cycle, may very well be the only way for Shabranigdu to truly be free. Following this logic, if all the pieces are "killed", they'll merge back into one and become Shabranigdu reborn. Here's an analogy to make things clear: Shabranigdu : fragments :: {{spoiler|[[Persona 3|Nyx Avatar : Shadows]]}}. If any of them actuallly succeed and destroy the world, well that's why he wants to be free in the first place.
== Plot ==
=== ''Slayers: NEXT'' Was A [[Gambit Roulette]] By Greater Beast ===
''Slayers: NEXT'' seems to be a [[Xanatos Gambit]] by Hellmaster to kill Gaav and destroy the world, but Xelloss's bemusement at Hellmaster's destruction suggests something more. Hellmaster was actually manipulated by ''Greater Beast'', into destroying Gaav and then himself.
Line 40:
=== Zuuma was affected by the first casting of the Giga Slave ===
Zuuma's powers appear to be chaos based, just like the Ragna blade, but there's little explained about how they works. Likewise, Lina discussed the origins of the Giga Slave once during the series, mentioning laying to waste to a large area, but there was no details about this. Zuuma appears to be in constant pain due to his dark powers, so it stands to reason that perhaps the reason he wishes to destroy Lina is because of what she unknowingly did to him. I haven't read the novels mind you.
=== Naga is the one who set Lina up to meet Prince Phillionel ===
It's known that Naga is Prince Phillionel's eldest daughter, and at the start of the first season (before getting sidetracked by the whole Rezo/Shabranigdo thing) Lina was heading for Atlas City- the reason for which we found out at the start of episode 11; to meet a prince. Naga was never able to truly beat Lina, despite her claims otherwise, and was happy to claim even the smallest "victory" over the girl she considered her rival. Would setting Lina up to meet her dad, whom Naga knew would ''not'' match up to Lina's expectations of a prince, really be beneath her? It was probably the greatest "victory" against Lina that Naga ever achieved.
This would also explain why she stopped following Lina; she didn't want to meet her father again... in fact, it's possible that she's continued to avoid Lina in all subsequent seasons either because she believes the risk of meeting her little sister Amelia is too great (having heard from the stories about how Amelia joining up with Lina), or because she's afraid of what Lina will do to her in revenge.
=== Lina was completely obliterated at the end of Next. ===
So Lina is willingly drawn into the source of Chaos and the cold dark void, then when Gourry goes swimming she appears in front of him fine and dandy? It would be child's play for the mother of all things to create an exact copy of something, especially after having just absorbed it. The original Lina was unmade body and soul, the Lina running around is an exact duplicate created by the Lord of Nightmares.
* Koan of the day: if she's an exact duplicate and the original is destroyed, does it matter?
Line 54:
** Three pounds of Flax.
** To which I answer: [[Teleporters and Transporters]]. One of those things that makes me shiver at one real-world belief that states we cease to be at death, but are "remade" later - because [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abYhYuYp2Is that ain't us].
* Obligatory ''[[
* Alternately, Lina could have been rebuilt by the 'Chaos that always exists within' the LoN- her soul and memories would still be there, but she wouldn't be human anymore. Not truly.
** So, she was "dissolved", then "crystallized" again and is a creation of LoN and not a regular part of the world anymore. This doesn't mean she isn't exactly the same in everything else, though. After all, The Golden Lord created ''worlds''.
=== Sometime between TRY and Evolution, Zelgadis was knighted ===
Specifically, a knight of Seyruun. When Amelia and Zelgadis meet up with Lina and Gourry again in episode two of Revolution, Amelia explains why they were looking for Lina and Zelgadis chimes in. We then see a flashback of Zelgadis down on one knee, and Philionnel tapping him on one shoulder with a sword. There were people in the background, it looked like some sort of official ceremony. After all that Zelgadis has done for Seyruun in general and Amelia in particular, it only makes sense for Phil to make him a Knight of Seyruun.
Line 65:
== Characters ==
=== Naga is Amelia's long-lost sister. ===
Although this has ''never'' been openly stated in the show's [[Canon]], they've hinted at it repeatedly. Both Naga and Amelia claim to have sisters whom they haven't seen in years, and there are rare scenes in the various TV series where Amelia is seen doing an obvious [[Double Take]] at a random female passerby who resembles Naga... not to mention that Naga's hair is almost ''exactly'' the same shade of purplish-black as Amelia's. Of course, this will probably never be proven -- Amelia never appears outside the TV series and Naga has only been in the [[OAV|OAVs]] and theatrical features, so their paths never actually cross. One of series creator Hajime Kanzaka's [[All There in the Manual|fanzines]] does [[Word of God|confirm this theory]], giving Naga's real name as "Gracia Ul Naga Saillune". ([https://web.archive.org/web/20080922191140/http://www.purple-gizmo.com/zelink14/sisters.html This site] and [[wikipedia:Naga the Serpent|Wikipedia]] have more on this theory.)
* Not really long lost, but she looks more like a runaway that couldn't stand her father and her little sister talking all that justice blabbering. Taking in consideration it's Slayers, it has to be the only comical enough possibility. She doesn't appear at the same time as Amelia because she hides from that [[Good Is Dumb|boring justice and love speech]].
** Actually, the running away was supposedly prompted by witnessing her mother's death at the hands of an assassin, who Naga then killed with [[Razor Floss]], if this troper recalls correctly. Which raises the possibility that Naga isn't exactly sane- the incident seems to be what gave her that intense phobia of blood she has.
Line 72:
* Played with ''massively'' in the new ''Evolution-R'' series, where both characters (likely) appeared. Naga doesn't show up, but an amnesiac talking suit of armor calling herself "Nama" shows up and joins the group. Since Nama has 1) the same seiyu as Naga, 2) the same mannerisms 3) the same annoying personality and 4) dear GOD the same laugh (at least in Japanese), it's almost certainly her. The amnesia+suit of armor business however means that neither sister is any the wiser, even when they share an episode together.
=== The tangerine Ozzel ate was Naga. ===
When Naga's soul was released from the living armor, she transmigrated into a box of tangerines. Latter, we are treated to a scene of Ozzel tasting a new batch of tangerines that the merchant "just picked up that day". Ozzel ate Naga.
=== Xellos is actually Lina's older sister Luna. ==
While absolutely absurd on the face of it, it becomes more plausible as one looks at the mounting evidence. Both have short, shoulder length hair that is dark purple almost to the tint of black. Both, apparently, have incredible magical power (Luna's is supposedly the power of Cephied as his destined knight, while Xellos's is the combined roles of priest and general of Beastmaster Zellas Metallum). Both are also well known for rarely (never, in Luna's case) having their eyes seen. Xellos has, in ''Next'', shown the ability to pass as a woman and even act as one extremely convincingly. And in both ''NEXT'' and ''TRY'', Lina is instrumental to accomplishing Xellos' goals. Given Lina's unusually high magical power and her tendency to save the world, she could actually be the Cephied Knight and Xellos has been assigned as her handler from day one, with "Luna" only existing to allow him to prepare her for what was to come personally without revealing himself. And the only time that Xellos and Luna would cross paths? In ''TRY'', where Luna, supposedly a powerful force of good, turns Filia down on the quest and recommends Lina instead. Shortly thereafter, Xellos (who's capable of instantaneous teleportation) shows up on the scene to help Lina along. Filia, an inexperienced priestess to say the least, is unlikely to have seen through the deception.
* This theory could, of course, go both ways; while the writing above implies that Xellos represents the true identity, it is just as plausible by the same evidence that Xellos is the fake identity (the only significant counter-evidence, "his" loyalty to Zelas is rarely if ever shown to the viewer and could be faked). This would have more unusual consequences (As Xellos is shown surviving things ''no human could'', and is explicitly acting in Hellmaster Fibrizzo's interests during NEXT, which Luna would/could only do if she was ''perfectly sure'' Lina would win), but consistently fits with the same evidence.
** Problem: Luna and Lina have documented births to documented parents, while Xellos has been alive since the War of the Monsters' Fall, proven by the fact that the surviving Gold Dragons know him on sight as the one who slaughtered them. Also, regarding the "Luna is good" part, she's not. She's an avatar of a force of good, but if she has an alignment it's Neutral Lazy.
** This Troper was convinced that Xelloss was Sylphiel's big brother, until the whole, "oh, yeah, he's a millenia-old mazoku" thing.
** The coup de grace for this particular WMG is the reasoning for why Luna turned down the role of saving the world; the prophecy explicitly stated that there would be a force that exists between light and darkness. Luna, while being more powerful, is a force for light. Likewise, Xellos is a force of darkness, and resonated with Fillia. If anything, Luna doesn't actually exist, and there is no knight for Ceipheed. We have documented proof of Xellos' mazoku powers, but there's not as much for Luna's light powers (that I've seen anyway).
=== Gourry is a Prince. ===
The Sword of Light, a unique magic weapon, is passed down through his family. He's extremely skilled with it, and shows more tactical awareness than someone [[Too Dumb to Live]] ought to. But when putting on an act, [[Obfuscating Stupidity|dumb is the easiest to keep consistent]], and he often seems the stupidest when it would get him out of a beating. At the start of the episode Amelia first appears in, Lina tells Gourry she's going to ditch him and marry a rich prince rumors say will travel this very road we're traveling. He is not amused.
* This may or may not be related to the theory Gourry is also an elf. One pre-series [[OAV]] has Lina timetraveling to meet a sword-wielding boy who shares Gourry's surname (Gabriev) who
** [[Word of God]] apparently is that Rowdy Gabriev (the Gabriev from the first Slayers movie, the one referred to in the above note) did '''not''' marry Mellyroon (the elf girl), supposedly because she wouldn't have become old enough for romance until after Rowdy died. Personally, this feels a bit of an asspull... though this troper can't help but wonder if this theory actually strikes quite close to home and the author was simply working to misdirect fans from it...
*** Jus' sayin', you don't have to be married or "old enough for romance" to have babies.
Line 90:
*** For those unaware of what the above point is making: {{spoiler|at the end of the movie, it's revealed that the "Spring of Growth" that Rowdy used to bribe Lina into helping him is actually more of a "Spring of Aging" -- anything placed in it ages much quicker. It's called a Spring of Growth because the locals use it to age fruits and vegetables artificially, making them bigger and riper much faster than nature intended. The early teens human Lina would have quickly become an old woman if she jumped in -- an elf that lives for centuries, on the other hand, and which would probably not hit puberty until about 50 or so, would hardly notice being shaved of a decade or two.}}
=== Lina's soul contains a fragment of the Mazoko Lord Shabranigdo. ===
This is why she can [[Beam Spam]] Dragon Slaves, sometimes without even using the [[Invocation]] words. This also helped strengthened her soul to be able to channel the Lord of Nightmares for a brief period.
* In the light novels, Milgasia actually suggests that Lina might be carrying a piece of Shabrinigdo.
* Xellos knows, of course, but that is a secret.
* Nope. Lina is carrying a piece of ''the Lord of Nightmares'' inside her and has been since her first documented test of Giga Slave, or maybe since birth. Thus the event of possession at the end of Next and the odd resurrection of Valgaav at the end of Try.
** The Lord of Nightmares does mention that 'My mind is my power, my power is my mind', which amounts to there being no way to separate her power from her (Rather than black magic, which is borrowing power from monsters, but the magic is not actively demonically intelligent) as Lina has some of the power of the Lord of Nightmares, as she can perform both the Ragna Blade and the Giga Slave, it follows that she possesses a portion of LoN inside her.
*** That just means using her power inherently attracts her very personal attention.
Line 101:
** Also, Lina was a servant of LoN either way, even before becoming her creature. The form in which she refused the Pact boils down to "the chaos gives meaning to my existence, i value this over guaranteed survival". But whose province the chaos as such is? Isn't it the same as pledging one's life to the Golden Lord -- quite willingly and meaning this, not just formally in an incantation?..
=== Xellos is actually a meta character who either is or is working for the author. ===
In the final episode of Try, when Valgaav reveals his true intentions, Xellos' immediate reaction is one of shock: "'''''No one''''' is supposed to have that kind of thought!"
This from someone whom on multiple occasions we've seen calmly converse with people who want to destroy the world; someone who smiles as he wipes out an entire race of beings with a single gesture; someone for whom unconventional thought is practically a watch-word. And what makes him freak out in the end?
The idea that someone might upset the balance that defines the nature of the universe - in other words, the premise that directs the plot.
Line 121:
* Xellos is bound to act as a Game Master (in various senses) as a part of his near-symbiotic relationship with humans. Why slaughter people for Mazoku food if they milk themselves for it willingly every day? When they don't, he gives some vague hint that is taken as a challenge, feeds on ensuing frustration and bewilderment, satisfies his curiosity when humans finally find a way to reach it, and repeats later at will. And has a lot of fun in process. If he dangles achievable and valuable bait before his food source, this gives him voluntary "victims" who will follow the whole routine again and again knowingly. He's not above saving humans, if it's someone giving him well-tasting food or amusement. ''Of course'' he saved Martina: she's not only vengeful, but regularly brings hurt on herself in new and entertaining ways without any provocation.
=== Luna is just as scared of Lina as Lina is of her ==
Maybe even more.
Line 129:
** Nah. Luna, as a symbol of purity and light, just ''reeeeeally'' doesn't like being seen naked.
=== Lina is the Lord of Nightmares' walking [[Spanner in the Works]] ===
Or to put it another way, Lina's as close as you can get to [[True Neutral]] as you can get in a world created by the living embodiment of Chaos.
Line 139:
=== Rowdy Gabriev's messing around with chronomancy is why Gourry has memory problems ===
* That... That actually makes ''sense''! If we look at the theories about Gourry's lineage (the Elf girl) and take them at face value for a moment -- at the time of the movie, ''Gourry didn't exist''. Maybe he wasn't ''supposed'' to exist -- ever! If that was the case, then Lina might not have {{spoiler|destroyed Phibrizzo, or even stopped ''Rezo''}}! The world may have been utterly destroyed! However when Lina went back in time and changed everything, Gourry came into being -- but becuse he wasn't supposed to exist, he has memory troubles. Did... Did any of that actually make sense?
** No, if that was canon, this would be far more confusing than [[Neon Genesis Evangelion]], and any ending becomes a [[Gainax Ending]] [[Up to Eleven]].
=== The Lord of Nightmares is afraid of needles. ===
Basically, I imagine it like this: the reason why LON created gods and demons is that it is struggling between two evils. The worlds are actually wounds in LoN's flesh, and they hurt. The demons' job is to clean the wound. But the destruction of a world hurts like... like you'd imagine. So it created gods to hold off that pain.
Line 149:
=== The Slayers characters represent the various aspects of [[Tabletop RPG]] players ===
Specifically, [https://web.archive.org/web/20120510055816/http://pw1.netcom.com/~shagbert/pages/munchkins.html these archtypes]. Gourry is played by [[The Real Man]], Zelgadis is played by the [[The Roleplayer|Real Roleplayer]], Amelia is [[The Loonie]], and Lina is (of course) the [[Munchkin]]. Xellos is by default the [[GMPC]].
=== The Lord of Nightmares isn't actually in full control of her powers. ===
We all have those moments where we think, "Hey, wouldn't it be neat if..."
Line 164:
* This is actually really true in part: According to [[Word of God]], L-Sama created the universes by accident, and would like to reabsorb them as she feels incomplete, but she can't do that on her own for some reason.
=== Rezo is in love with Lina ===
In ''Evolution-R'' he says how wonderful it is to be able to see... while looking right at Lina. Hmmm.
* He could be just saying she's attractive. That doesn't neccesarily mean infatuation.
=== The only reason that Lina feels that her chest is "too small" is... ===
...Because people in her hometown were constantly comparing her to her sister. ("It's too bad you're not as pretty as your sister", "It's too bad you're not as cool as your sister" etc.), and they even compared their bust sizes. If the screen shot of Luna from the opening of TRY is [[media:luna_1832.jpg|anything to go by]], then it is possible that Lina feels her chest is "too small" because she was always compared to her sister. Traveling with [[Gag Boobs|Naga]] afer she left home could ''not'' have helped. Granted, Luna's chest is not *that* much larger than Lina's appears to be, however Lina's chest was probably a ''lot'' smaller when she was younger, while Luna's chest was larger as she was older.
* Actually, if you compare Lina in Slayers Perfect with Slayers Evolution-R, she used to be ''a lot'' bigger, though that might just be [[Art Evolution]].
=== Amelia represents America. ===
Amelia's name in Japanese is pronounced "Ameria," just one letter away from the country she supposedly parodies. Her outfit is a pastel version of its flag colors: red, white, and blue. She's headstrong about taking care of bad guys and bringing justice wherever she goes. She's also a hero fanatic and sees herself as one.
* ...in the most oblivious and [[Large Ham|loud]] way possible and generic superhero style. Heh. Even if she wasn't intended as this initially, the [[Stealth Pun]] was too hard to resist.
=== Lina, Amelia, Zel, and Goury Represent the four temperments ===
* Lina is choleric, Zel melancholic, Amelia is phlegmatic, and Gourry is sanguine!Setting and universe
=== [[Orphen]] takes place on another continent on the same world. ===
[[Orphen]] and Slayers are of the same genre, have similar technology(ie, same time), are from the same magazine([[Dragon (magazine)]]) and have a crossover that doesn't seem to contradict this theory.
=== Mazoku Are Driven Mad If They Feel Positive Emotions ===
Mazoku are beings of pure evil and darkness. They are they very embodiment of negative energy, and thus can feel nothing else. The reason they want to destroy the world is that, to them, all existence is nothing but suffering and pain.
There are, however, ways that a Mazoku can become capable of feeling positive emotions: if they merge with a Shinzoku (pure positive energy) or a human (contain positive and negative). Because [[Evil Cannot Comprehend Good]], when a Mazoku experiences positive emotion for the first time, it will [[Go Mad
There are at least four examples that support this theory:
* When Chaos Dragon Gaav was merged with a human soul by Aqualord Ragradia (the Water Dragon King), it caused him to turn against the other Mazoku.
Line 195:
* May be canon -- and known to the Mazoku. Xellos explicitly states that Mazoku who are ressurrected in a non-standard fashion invariably become an enemy of the Mazoku - in this case, he was speaking about Gaav, Valgaav, and, in the immediate sense, Ghost Shabernigdu.
=== White magic is Holy magic that calls upon power from Volfeed and/or the gods of the blue and white worlds. ===
Lina's talismans worked while the barrier was still up. Therefore, it didn't isolate the people inside from the other three world's like it isolated them from the outside world. Since its possible to call upon the Dark Lord's of the other worlds from inside the barrier it is also possible to call upon there gods.
== Plausible Crossovers ==
=== If [[Slayers]] and [[Lost Universe]] are connected, then the other two worlds that exist ALSO represent two other genres of [[Speculative Fiction]]. ===
And the clue on the genres is the names of the four Mazoku Lords: Ruby Eye, Dark Star, Death Fog, and Chaotic Blue.
* Slayers is a [[Fantasy]] series and its Mazoku Lord is Ruby Eye Shabranigdu. It is the Red World. It's symbol is a magical eye.
Line 215:
== Impossible crossovers ==
=== [[Slayers]] and [[Final Fantasy VII]] take place in the same universe. ===
But with a few thousands of years of difference, [[Slayers]] taking place ''before'' [[Final Fantasy VII]]. Magic without Materia? Check. Also, LON ''might'' actually be Minerva and Jenova is a Mazoku.
Line 221:
* Which means that the Northern Crater was actually caused by Lina using the Dragon (or Giga) Slave.
=== [[Ideon]], [[Mobile Suit Gundam]], [[Lost Universe]], and [[Neon Genesis Evangelion]] are all set in the same universe. ===
Namely, that of Night Dragon Volfeed. When Volfeed and Dugradigdu first merged, the result was Ide. Volfeed tried to guide Ide as much as she could, but in the end she lost out to Dugradigdu's destructive tendencies. The world was almost completely destroyed, but Volfeed was able to salvage the last remaining bits of it and allow life to begin anew. The lives lost in Ide's rampage would reincarnate in different forms and find Ide again, setting into motion the cycle of destruction and creation. Kane, Cosmo, Judau, and Asuka were all reincarnations of the same soul. Therefore, during Instrumentality, Asuka was released from the LCL even though she had been consumed by the mass produced Evas before Instrumentality occured. Volfeed just had a soft spot for Kane's soul. Because Ide stopped at Instrumentality during its latest rampage, the surviving gods were finally able to mount a resistance, heading into a different world to destroy Dugradigdu's weapons.
=== Slayers is set in the [[Warhammer
The Lord of Nightmares is a rogue Chaos God, and is experimenting with a Feral world. The Monsters and "gods" are her Daemons.
{{worksubpagefooter}}
[[Category:Wild Mass Guessing/Anime and Manga]]
__NOTOC__
| |||