Silly Rabbit, Idealism Is for Kids: Difference between revisions

{{quote|''"I'm thirty. I'm five years too old to lie to myself and call it honor."''|'''Nick Carraway''', ''[[The Great Gatsby]]''}}

 

 

When a character (primarily in dramas) is asked to go beyond their job and help with "a cause", the character sometimes refuses, and afterwards the other person asks, "What's happened to you?" or "Since when did you stop caring?" the answer sometimes comes down to the character saying, "[[Growing Up Sucks|I grew up]]," implying that the character "grew" from a [[Wide-Eyed Idealist]] to an [[The Cynic|embittered pessimist]]. It's also often used by the [[Anti-Hero]] or [[Nietzsche Wannabe]] to sneer at the idealistic methods and beliefs of the [[Ideal Hero]] and his ilk; such [[Dumb Is Good|naive]] and [[Children Are Innocent|childish]] wishful thinking has no place in the grown-up, random, [[Sliding Scale of Idealism Versus Cynicism|cynical]] world that the Anti Hero lives in. Alternatively, a [[Retired Badass]] might have genuinely gotten too old or set in retirement to do what's being asked of them.

Considering that many shows and media that are on the idealistic end of the [[Sliding Scale of Idealism Versus Cynicism]] or are just plain [[Lighter and Softer]] are primarily targeted towards children and teenagers, while cynical media are often targeted to adults or attract controversy from [[Moral Guardians]], there can often be a tendency, especially among more cynical people, to associate idealism with childish or naive thinking, something to outgrow, rather than an actual, legitimate, motivating philosophy that adults can also make use of.

 

 

Expect this phrase to be uttered in [[World Half Empty]] settings ''and'' [[Real Life]].

 

== Anime & Manga ==

** Oddly enough, before that he was big on 'It's a game, have fun!' Pretty big turn around.

** {{spoiler|In the final episode Judai duels Yugi and regains his passion for dueling.}}

*** {{spoiler|Technically, he was supposed to have regained it during the pair duel that season, but then the writers said "screw it" and had him re-learn that exact same lesson for the finale.}}

* Subverted in ''[[Rurouni Kenshin]]''. When the villains try to [[Break the Cutie]] Kaoru by saying that martial arts are for killing, the titular protagonist agrees.. but also says that he prefers the idealism over the truth.

** To expand on it, Nozomu tells his class to write down their "Despairs for the future", essentially the students writing down their "Hopes for the future", what they are aiming at becoming, which Nozomu shoots down by saying "It's hopeless", and then giving them a [[Hannibal Lecture]] on their unrealistic goals... And then [[The Pollyanna|Fuura Kafuka]] shoots HIM down simply by stating that no matter how unrealistic your goal is, as long as you do your best to achieve it "the possibility exists" that you'll succeed. <ref> Trivial note: It's later revealed that Kafuka's "Hopes/Despairs for the future" was to become "God, A Time Traveler, A Pororocian".</ref>

* In the ''[[Fullmetal Alchemist]]'' manga both Miles and another Briggs soldier mention this, as when they were Ed's age they thought they could get through life [[Technical Pacifist|without killing anyone either]].

* The [[Token Mini-Moe]] in ''[[Heat Guy J]]'' gets in [[Contemplate Our Navels|an argument]] with a [[Defective Detective]], when he tells her that money isn't everything. In her world, where she and [[Bottle Fairy|her mother]] barely have what they need to survive, money ''is'' everything, and she has become jaded. She tells him that believing in ideals like "money can't bring happiness" is all a fantasy.

* This trope is inverted in ''[[Black Lagoon]]'' when [[Cool Old Guy|Takenaka]], a [[Terrorists Without a Cause|Terrorist Without A Cause]], attempts to interrogate [[The Hero|Rock]] into giving up some info by convincing him that they're [[Not So Different]]. Rock refuses, and asks Takenaka why he keeps fighting for a cause he's already lost. Takenaka explains that he's long since lost any ideals about being able to do anything constructive with his actions, but "keeps preaching" because it's the only thing he finds meaning in doing.

* Used in ''[[Tiger and Bunny]]'' to highlight the duality between Kotetsu and his partner Barnaby. Barnaby, a [[Punch Clock Hero]] who views superheroics as "just another job", finds Kotetsu's still-intact idealism and aspirations towards being [[The Cape]] to be childish and naive. The twist is that Kotetsu is at least ten years older than Barnaby, and seems to be holding on to the virtues of "the good old days" in an era where superheroes have become marketing mascots.

*** In his case, it turns out his mindset is based on {{spoiler|1=the knowledge of what the Stern Bild idea of 'justice' actually entails. For much of the series the HeroTV heroes are ignorant of the the massive corruption and violence that lies behind the glitzy theatrics, giving another reason (if one were needed) why the others don't see where Lunatic's coming from. [[Sequel Hook|Hopefully]] time will tell what the reactions of them and NEXTs in general will be to Maverick's setup being uncovered.}}

* In ''[[One Piece]]'', when the Sun Pirates helps a young human girl (whom they had grown to cherish) return to her village, Arlong is quick to ruin their mood by stating that Koala will grow up to hate fishmen like any other human.

{{quote| {{spoiler|"For the record, I don't like how this turned out any more then you do. But this is the world we live in. And justice does not always prevail. It's not the wild west where you can clean up the streets with a gun. Even though sometimes it's exactly what is needed... Bob Lee Swagger, ''you're free to go.''"}}}}

** So Swagger {{spoiler|''goes'' straight to the senator's cabin and [[Why Don't You Just Shoot Him?|shoots all of them.]]}}

* This is Somerset's attitude towards Mills in ''[[Se7en]]''. Somerset's years as a cop have left him disillusioned, jaded, and borderline misanthropic. He scoffs at the younger man's more optimistic outlook on life, at one point even chastising him by saying "You can't be this naive!"

** Lampshaded in [[Family Guy|Blue Harvest:]]

{{quote| '''Luke''': So, you got your reward and you're leaving? Is that it? <br />

{{quote| "Can you imagine the damage it would have done to the administration's political capital? We're talking about an election year, and a damn hard, uphill fight. ... Oh, c'mon. Can you ever 'solve' poverty? Can you ever 'solve' crime? Can you ever 'solve' disease, unemployment, war, or any other societal herpes? Hell no. All you can ever hope for is to make them manageable enough to allow people to get on with their lives. That's not cynicism, that's maturity."}}

** Given that this guy was personally responsible for a number of the dumbass decisions that led the world to ruin, he should feel lucky that his punishment is simply collecting manure for a biodiesel plant. Of course, ''his'' viewpoint is that his decisions kept society going long enough for the [[Shoot the Dog|Redekker Plan]] to be enacted, therefore making him one of the world's unsung saviors. The reader is [[Shrug of God|left hanging as to this.]]

* The Decembrist uprising of 1825 is described in such terms for all of Russian high society in ''[[The Death of the Vazir Mukhtar]]''; while "the people of the [eighteen] twenties" are generally idealistic if superfluous, impractical and hypocritical, the people who replace them at the forefront of high society after the failure of the Decembrist uprising are more pragmatic, materialistic and outwardly conformist (notably, both sides can be pretty cynical or the opposite regardless of this divide, just in different ways). And then there is the main character, Aleksandr Griboyedov, who is stuck awkwardly between the two groups and is very cynical and contemptuous towards both.

* ''Animorphs.'' Jake's brother Tom (who is actually controlled by an alien Yeerk slug) sums the trope up when talking about morality in war:

* Miss Parker from ''[[The Pretender]]'', complete with the obligatory "What happened to you?" "I grew up" conversation in the first episode.

* ''[[Law and Order]]'' loves to rub the viewers' face into the political version of this trope. Then there's [[Base Breaker|Abbie Carmichael]] who is this trope personified.

** Though this can seem less idealistic and more stupid on the part of Starfleet. After all, they just stopped an alien race from {{spoiler|''blowing up the planet''}}, and another one from {{spoiler|conquering it in the past}}, and they have met a lot of species that proved to be rather hostile. I think that this proves that not all aliens are goody-goody peace, freedom and apple pie loving explorers, and that there are more that enough dangers that they need to be able to defend themselves from, and to defend Earth from, since they are the only ones with the capability to do so (unless you want to [[Too Dumb to Live|rely on the Vulcans]].)

* [[Game of Thrones]] hands down.

== Theatre ==

* From ''[[Rent]]'': "What happened to Benny? What happened to his heart, and the ideals he once pursued?"

* In ''Vanities'', Kathy learns the hard way, after losing her boyfriend and her nervous breakdown, that her idea of "an organized life" doesn't work well in adulthood. Then the cast as a whole finds out that their friendship "isn't what it used to be".

 

 

== Video Games ==

* In ''[[Live a Live]]'', the former hero Hash has this attitude; he despises people in general for forgetting him after he saved the day, and considers idealistic heroes {{spoiler|like Oersted}} to be stupid. He recants his position [[Redemption Equals Death|at the end]], though, and tells {{spoiler|Oersted}} to keep fighting so long as any one person believes in him. {{spoiler|But when the world curbstomps Oersted's idealism too, [[Omnicidal Maniac|Oersted decides to get revenge.]].}}

** Also worth noting is that Nicolette and Chad were really only fighting against Majestic-12, NOT [[The Illuminati]] as a whole, so they didn't go on to join the same group they were originally fighting (and their expressed goals didn't change as much as their methods did). If you speak to Nicolette enough in the original game, it becomes obvious that she's not entirely innocent even then (and that she sees her alliance with Chad and Silhouette through very cynical eyes - considering their value as a tool of the Illuminati just like her mother did). Chad, however, may have started out more idealistic, and does give a "I can't believe I was that naive" speech in the second game.

** {{spoiler|The main problem was that Archer followed said very unrealistic ideal to the letter, which was to "save everyone"}}

*** Not really. The problem is that he tried {{spoiler|and (unsurprisingly) failed catastrophically}} to do so, resulting in him ending up {{spoiler|spending the rest of eternity ''killing'' people in order that the disasters they caused/were in the vicinity of won't affect anyone else}}.

{{quote| '''Jak''': [[The Power of Friendship|I've found out who]] [[Nakama|my real friends are]].<br />

'''G.T. Blitz''': [[Evil Cannot Comprehend Good|Oh please, the BS meter is really pegging now!]] }}

* Completely inverted in ''[[Final Fantasy VIII]]''. Squall starts off believing that his own cynical, antisocial viewpoints are the correct ones, but as the game progresses and Rinoa and the friends he makes help him both emotionally mature and deal with his mental trauma, he becomes more idealistic.

* [http://www.zeldauniverse.net/articles/zelda-wii-needs-an-anti-hero/ This article] concerning ''[[The Legend of Zelda]]'' claims that, since ''[[Twilight Princess]]'' went with a realistic art style, Nintendo ought to have made Link more "realistic," namely, by turning him into an antihero. The author's argument hinges in large part on his assertion that people were "[[Fan Dumb|very disappointed]]" with ''Twilight Princess'' because the realistic art style supposedly ought to have been paired with a non-idealistic hero. The article became [[Hilarious in Hindsight]] because, a mere three days later, ''[[Skyward Sword]]'' was revealed with an art style that was decidedly less realistic than the one in ''Twilight Princess'', with a Link who is just as much of a normal hero as both the one in ''Twilight Princess'' and every other Link.

{{quote| '''Roy''': "Drugs are prohibited. Doesn't mean people don't want to take them. Limiting supply doesn't mean that we have limited demand."<br />

'''Cole''': "I understand that. I know that the average joe needs to unwind a little, let his hair down at the end of the week. But morphine? Heroin?"<br />

'''Alistair''': The throne? He's the queen's father. Still, I can't see how he'll get away with murder.<br />

'''Flemeth''': You speak as if he would be the first king to gain his throne that way. Grow up, boy. }}

{{quote| '''Cecil''': Did Firion give you his answer?<br />

'''Cloud''': Yeah. He says he has a dream...and that he'll keep fighting to make it come true.<br />

'''Cloud''': Sounds so...childlike.<br />

'''Cecil''': Honest men have honest dreams. }}

* Cyrus tells the hero/ine of ''[[Pokémon Diamond and Pearl]]'' that things like friendship, compassion, and love are just illusions people use to block out [[Nietzsche Wannabe|the horrible reality of their suffering]]. He then comments on the hero/ine [[Stealth Insult|drawing strength from their compassion]].