Selfish Good, Selfish Evil: Difference between revisions

{{trope}}

 

Some characters are [[Lawful Good|righteous and upstanding]] [[Neutral Good|human beings]] [[Chaotic Good|who always look out for others]]. Others are [[Chaotic Stupid|so insane that their very existence distorts the universe around them]]. And still others [[Chaotic Evil|just want to]] [[The Dark Knight|watch the world burn]]. But, there are those select few who '''don't''' think that being a moral crusader or a schizophrenic elf who wears potato sacks are good ideas. They only burn the world if it helps them achieve some ulterior objective. When characters change alignments, they often spend a little time in one of these states before completing their character change.

A '''Neutral Selfish''' character has no friends and no enemies. After all, a friend is someone who asks for a discount and an enemy is someone you aren't paid to fight. They're generally [[Private Military Contractors]] or plain old [[Hired Guns]], frequently overlapping with [[Sociopathic Hero]]. [[Shoplift and Die|Do not attempt to steal from them.]]

 

 

A '''Selfish Evil''' character may well say, "In the land of the blind'''ed''', the one-eyed man is king." They push everyone around them, possibly [[Earthshattering Kaboom|the whole world]], down, just to lift themselves up.

 

{{examples}}

* ''[[Slayers]]'': Lina Inverse switches between this, and [[Chaotic Good]] proper. She's DEFINITELY selfish, but at the same time has a good heart, at least in the novels. She cares about people who get hurt... [[Destructive Savior|...but not about property damage]].

** Which again applies mostly to anime. In the novels, she shows far more restraint, preferring to earn rewards without causing much stir.

* Gotho, Vanilla, and Coconna in ''[[Armored Trooper VOTOMS]]''. Sure, they only care about getting rich at most, but when it comes to looking over and saving Chirico, who helps them in spite of not for their interest, they don't hesitate in doing so.

 

* The superhero team The Front Line from ''[[No Hero]]''. In the words of their leader: "The more people alive there are, the more people there are to earn money that will eventually be given to me. Also, the more people there are to breed girls whom I will eventually fuck."

* Captain Amazing of ''[[Mystery Men]]'' {{spoiler|is responsible for [[Super Villain|Casanova Frankenstein]]'s release to keep his backers happy}}, despite being the city's only [[Big Good]].

* ''[[Ghostbusters]]'': Peter Venkman is another "emphasis on Good" example. He's pretty much in the paranormal business for the money and the opportunity to meet bales of cute women - [[Berserk Button|but if you threaten someone he cares about]], God help you, even if you '''are''' a god.

* Han Solo, even after he came back at the end, although he definitely leaned on the good side of this trope:

'''Leia''': Hey, I knew there was more to you than money! }}

 

* [[Ciaphas Cain]] switches between this and Lawful Selfish. [[Alternate Character Interpretation|Maybe]].

* In ''[[The Divine Comedy]]'', the fate of this sort of people is apparently the planet Mercury. They're still in Heaven, but not as high as, say, martyrs or philosophers.

{{quote|All witches are selfish, the Queen had said. But Tiffany's Third Thoughts said: Then turn selfishness into a weapon! Make all things yours! Make other lives and dreams and hopes yours! Protect them! Save them! Bring them into the sheepfold! Walk the gale for them! Keep away the wolf! My dreams! My brother! My family! My land! My world! [[Crowning Moment of Awesome|How dare you try to take these things, because they are mine!]]}}

* Horace Slughorn from [[Harry Potter]] can be seen as this. He is undeniably helpful to those around him, helping to get people the recognition they deserve based on their talents. The early implication is that he does this simply to build connections, because of the benefits of knowing lots of important people. However, his later behavior {{spoiler|(His great personal shame at giving Voldemort the knowledge he needed to become immortal, as well as personally fighting Voldemort in the [[Grand Finale]])}} suggest that he is a genuinely good and friendly person at heart, just perfectly willing to reap the benefits of such behavior, and rather more interested in peace and relaxation than the self-sacrificing main characters.

 

* Robert Hawkins from ''[[Jericho]]''. He's partially responsible for the nuclear weapons, but despite his manipulations he is only trying to rise in the community for his family's sake. Could also be Lawful Selfish.

** Most of ''Firefly'''s characters except Jayne (see below) and maybe [[Badass Preacher|Book]].

* Rachel in ''[[Glee]]''. Lampshaded in one episode by Finn who points out that even when she acts unselfishly, in the long run she's doing it for selfish reasons.

 

* An issue of ''[[Dragon (magazine)|Dragon]]'' included philosophies [[Our Angels Are Different|Celestials]] could have which would [[Good Versus Good|pit them against the heroes]]. One of these is "The means justify the ends"; as long as you've done "the right thing" it's perfectly acceptable for the results to benefit you more than anyone else.

 

* Madame Morrible in ''[[Wicked (theatre)|Wicked]]'', especially the musical. Arguably, Galinda started out as a bit Selfish Good as well; she cared more about appearing good so that people would like her than about doing good. In the end she's become truly good though.

 

* Good Cole from ''[[Infamous (video game series)|In Famous]]''. It's implied that the only reason he's good is so that the entire city isn't trying to kill him.

* Zelos Wilder from ''[[Tales of Symphonia]]'' is a good example of the "Selfish '''Good'''" variety. For most of the game he's seemingly following you around just out of curiosity and because he wants to get into the skirts of either Colette or Sheena. You can dig into his backstory a bit during the game to flesh out his motivations, though, and if you're on decent terms with him for [[The Very Definitely Final Dungeon]], {{spoiler|he'll seem to betray you at first at the promise of even greater power and prestige (as he says, he's "always on the winning side")... and then it turns out he ''didn't'', because he can't be that much of a bastard to people who've been genuinely nice to him. [[Handsome Lech|Besides, if he betrays you guys, who'll comfort Colette and Sheena]]?}}

* Atton Rand in [[Knights of the Old Republic]] 2 - he has two motivations, depending on the gender of the [[Player Character]]. Either he wants to do good because of his [[The Atoner|crippling guilt]] about his past activities, or because the loves the Exile and will do anything for her. The player can be this as well - unlike in many other games, asking for (but not demanding) rewards gets you just as many morality meter points as not.

 

* When he's in a "[[Mary Sue Hunter|deconstruction of a sue]]" mode, [[Atop the Fourth Wall|Linkara]] is in the "saving the world" business for the ego boost it gives him.

 

* The ''[[South Park]]'' gang are like this as well as Neutral Selfish in several episodes. The most triumphant example for either example would have to be "A Ladder to Heaven", in which, the eponymous structure was only built so that the boys can get the ticket stub for the candy shopping spree from Kenny. {{spoiler|However, when Cartman drank Kenny's ashes under the belief that it's chocolate milk mix, they share the chubby shell, for a few episodes since, and Cartman sees what goes on in Kenny's life, including when Kenny put the ticket stub in a box.}}

 

** An entire section of moral philosophy is based on reciprocal altruism, i.e. "Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours." Morality seen as self interest with an indefinitely long view.

* The economic principle of "the invisible hand" is basically this.

** Alternatively, Malthusian, Marxist or Hobbesian economists will line humanity up under the Lawful Selfish or Selfish Evil sides, so it really just depends on whom you agree with.

 

* Asuka Langley Soryu of ''[[Neon Genesis Evangelion]]'': She's concerned with self-aggrandizement, and her method of choice is exceeding authority's expectations.

** Arguably Shinji as well, due to being an EXTREME [["Well Done, Son" Guy]]. He WILL impress Gendo, and his method of doing so happens to be following all of his orders... with the occasional spattering of reluctance.

** Ritsuko definitely qualifies too.

 

 

* Vork from ''[[The Guild]]'', but only in-game. He's perfectly willing to steal electricity and use anything that people probably won't miss, including his elderly neighbor's wi-fi bandwidth and tool shed. He might think of himself as [[Lawful Selfish|Lawful Pragmatic]] out-of-game, since aside from electricity and bandwidth he only takes things that are technically free (regardless of implied contracts, such as getting a cup of water and all the ketchup packets he could carry from a fast-food place without buying anything).

 

* Lyranna from ''[[The Beastmaster]] II'' might count:

{{quote|'''Jackie:''' "Aren't you on Arklon's side?"

* ''[[Conan the Barbarian]]''

 

 

* ''[[Firefly]]'''s Jayne Cobb, most assuredly.

** [[Jerk with a Heart of Gold|Most of the time, anyway]].

 

* The player in ''[[Fable]]''... NS only because there's no accurate prediction of player behavior. Can be many Selfishes.

* The shopkeepers in ''[[Nethack]]''. MOLOCH DAMN THOSE INVULNERABLE SHOPKEEPS!

** Any game with a shopkeeper and a world crisis. [[No Hero Discount]], huh? If the world ''doesn't'' end, you're going to need those profits, after all.

 

* ''[[Code Geass]]''' [[Magnificent Bastard]]-like hero Lelouch, though {{spoiler|ultimately his true motives are anything but selfish.}}

* Graham Aker as "Mr. Bushido" from [[Mobile Suit Gundam 00]]. Although a rightful ace in the A-Laws, all that he really cares about is to defeat [[Foe Yay|his dear]] [[The Rival|Setsuna]], and nothing else matters to him, let alone obeying orders by A-Laws at all.

* ''[[One Piece]]'' villain Blackbeard probably fits into this alignment. He wants to be Pirate King and will do absolutely anything that will help him reach his goal, be it stealing, killing old friends, or starting a war. But he also avoids pointless fights and rarely hurts anybody unless he's provoked or wants something from them. He's also made it quite clear that he has nothing personal against Luffy or really anybody.

** He fake-joined the Spider ''years'' ago to eventually set up a circumstance where he could fight its leader, the enigmatic [[Names to Run Away From Really Fast|Kuroro Lucifer]], and he's keeping Gon and Killua around in hopes that they'll realize their potential and become 'ripe' to kill. Although he also [[Squick|totally]] [[Shotacon|checks out their butts]] on Greed Island.

** Both [[Author Appeal|Togashi]] and [[Estrogen Brigade Bait|a lot of the fandom]] ''really like'' this guy.

 

 

* ''[[Pirates of the Caribbean]]'''s [[Lovable Rogue]] Jack Sparrow.

 

* Smeagol/Gollum of ''[[The Lord of the Rings|Lord of the Rings]]''. He helps [[The Hero|Frodo]], {{spoiler|but in the end he just wanted the One Ring back, and had a [[Karmic Death]] because of [[Greed]].}}

** Given that, Gollum is also a [[Neutral Evil]].

 

* Stevie in ''[[Wizards of Waverly Place]]'' who seems to be a [[Well-Intentioned Extremist]] but ultimately is willing to throw the wizard world into chaos just so she doesn't have to give up her powers.

 

* [[Wario Land]] is normally in this trope's territory.

** While on the subject of the ''[[Super Mario Bros.|Mario]]'' universe, we have [[Super Paper Mario|Dimentio]]. He appears as one of [[Big Bad|Count Bleck]]'s subordinates, but also aids the heroes in several occasions, but never seeming to be on either side. Turns out, he was on a side, [[The Man Behind the Man|his own]].

* Desire, Yuuto's sword in ''[[Eien no Aselia]].'' At first it appears to be a very evil weapon, urging Yuuto to plunder, kill and rape. However, it turns out it is literally incapable of acting otherwise<ref>It basically constantly feels that it is dying of thirst and that only the mana it gets from killing can help it</ref> and still manages to be selfless on a few occasions, to its own surprise. Of the three swords that oppose it, two are worse. In the end, it is likely that {{spoiler|if Desire had won over Oath in the end, instead of becoming the evil sword Rebirth that devours Shun it would have instead finally have been capable of rationality,}} as can be seen in the contrast between chaos (good) and order (bad) and the way it contrasts Oath.

 

* Roger from ''[[American Dad]]''. He often comes up with crazy schemes for his own satisfaction.

 

** While not blood-thirsty like Ali, [[Big Bad|Ribbons Almark]] and [[Dragon Lady|Wang Liu Mei]] are equally selfish and evil. Fittingly, the three mentioned are aligned to each side of the [[Chaotic Evil|triangle]] [[Lawful Evil|of]] [[Neutral Evil|evil]].

** [[Complete Monster|Dante]] of [[Fullmetal Alchemist (anime)|the 2003 anime version]] is an even better example. She's ready to make the lives of everyone in Amestris miserable, going so far as to commit ''genocide'', on the offchance that someone will become desperate enough to create the Philosopher's Stone, which she can then steal and use to go on living forever.

*** [[Smug Snake|Frank Archer]] might also count, as he's largely in it for his own self-aggrandizement, although he does appear to have some genuine loyalty to the government, no matter who runs it.

 

* In the words of Dumbledore: "[[Harry Potter|Lord Voldemort]] has never had a friend, nor do I believe he has ever wanted one." As far as he's concerned, the Death Eaters exist to do what he tells them, regardless of the consequences to themselves or [[Even Evil Has Loved Ones|their families]].

** [[Harry Potter|Lord Voldemort]] uses his natural charisma to manipulate a legion of followers solely to spread terror. Because of his [[Freudian Excuse|past]], Voldemort finds love a pointless emotion and a distraction from his desire for power and {{spoiler|functional immortality, both of which he believes will [[Meaningful Name|free him from the threat of death]]}}. He has no feelings for any of his followers and is willing to sacrifice them to get what he wants. Of course, [[Evil Cannot Comprehend Good|this proves to be a mistake]].

* Senna Wales from [[Everworld]] tends more and more towards this trope as the series progresses, and she uses more and more extreme measures to get what she wants. She tries to act like a Selfish Neutral, but on a good day she's a [[Well-Intentioned Extremist]], and she's consistently a petty sadist who suffers from [[Moral Myopia]] and [[It's All About Me]]. Hel from the same series' is even more self-centred and selfish. She doesn't care about anyone other than herself, and will willingly let the world burn rather than releasing her favourite prisoners, Thor and Baldor. She could almost be seen as Senna's [[Shadow Archetype]] in that respect, and as an example of who she might become.

 

* While the Greeed, despite being literally made of desire, have varying character alignments, there's one character who can without a doubt. {{spoiler|The Original [[Kamen Rider OOO]]. [[Complete Monster|He created five sentient organisms for no other reason but to kill them]] off to [[A God I Am|become a]] [[Physical God]] and conquer the world. He's outright called "desire incarnate" by a being who is ''literally'' desire incarnate himself. That's right, [[Even Evil Has Standards|even a Greeed]] considers this guy [[Selfish Evil]].}}

* Anything [[Heroes (TV series)|Sylar]] does is for his own gain and he considers being lied to and manipulated for purposes other than his own benefit a greater evil than his own.

 

* From ''[[Exalted]]'', we have Desus, a [[Complete Monster]] [[Villain with Good Publicity|who has the world convinced he's good, noble, and pure-intentioned.]] He doesn't have any overarching plans; he just wants to cultivate his star power, to the point that he invented a custom Charm that causes people to rationalize his every action, no matter how atrocious, as being justified and even noble, as an always-on mental effect.

 

* Hector of the ''[[Dept. Heaven]]'' series, overlapping with Lawful Selfish. His plan involves coasting along the waves of Asgard's raging case of [[Fantastic Racism]] and manipulating everything in his way so that he can claim the gods' empty seat. And he's respected enough that no one dares question him.

* While ''[[Infamous (video game series)|In Famous]]'' doesn't prevent the player from being sadistic, its "karmic choices" are generally between selflessness and this. For instance, you ''could'' deliberately expose yourself to a dangerous toxin, but if you'd rather be evil you can force a bystander to handle the toxin for you.

* [[God of War|Kratos]] is a blood-thirsty monster whose only motivation of fighting is his own glory and revenge at the expense of tons of innocent lives - and for his own joy, not unlike Ali Al-Saachez. Good luck trying to stand in his way...

 

* Belkar from ''[[The Order of the Stick]]'' is Selfish Evil according to [[Word of God]] (in the OOTS board game, actually!); this was the inspiration for making this page.

* [[Corrupt Corporate Executive|Mr Kornada]] in ''[[Freefall]]''

 

* [[Big Bad|Ozai]] from ''[[Avatar: The Last Airbender]]''. His predecessors may have wanted to [[Well-Intentioned Extremist|spread their civilization to the rest of the world]], but Ozai makes it pretty clear that he just wants the throne of the world and title of Phoenix King for himself. [[Complete Monster|He'll sacrifice thousands of troops, entire peoples, and his own wife, father, brother, and children to that desire, and never once bats an eye about it.]] A truly beautiful example of [[The Sociopath]], our Ozai.

** Arguably also Ozai's daughter Azula, who is arguably ''more'' evil than her father, and does it all so she can secure a place as the next Fire Lord and win Ozai's favor.

[[Category:Characterization Tropes]]

[[Category:Morality Tropes]]

[[Category:YMMV Trope]]