Good Is Old-Fashioned: Difference between revisions

{{quote|'''Jones:''' [[It Belongs in Aa Museum]]!<br />

'''Villain:''' So do you.|''[[Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade (Film)|Indiana Jones and Thethe Last Crusade]]''}}

{{quote|''"A speech on willpower in this day in age? I did not know people still believed in such silly notions.''"|'''Rozalin''', ''[[Disgaea]] 2''}}

The villain wants to sneer at [[The Hero]]. So what does he do? He calls him, and his [[Incorruptible Pure Pureness|stern moral code]], old-fashioned. Or out-of-date, obsolete, quaint, antiquated, etc. Expect the phrase "this day and age" to come up. The [[Anti -Hero]] may use the [[Stock Phrase]], as well, as may indeed, any character whose moral code is somewhat laxer than [[The Hero]]'s. But the most characteristic users are the [[Ubermensch]], [[Nietzsche Wannabe]], and the [[Nineties Anti -Hero]].

A [[Knight in Sour Armor]] or other characters wearing [[Jade -Colored Glasses]], if only somewhat cynical, may regard it as amusing, for its impracticality, tinged with admiration, for its honor. The worse a character is, the more likely the attitude will be contempt.

They may even explicitly describe the code of honor and [[Born in Thethe Wrong Century|the character who holds it]] as more suitable for [[Ye Goode Olde Days|a previous time]]. If the opportunity ever arises for contrast, it may be clear that the ideals always were ideals, though, in idealistic stories, it actually may have been better in the past.

The villain will seldom explicitly characterize himself [[Foil|in contrast]] as evil. [[I Did What I Had to Do|"Practical," "pragmatic" and "realistic"]] are more likely -- aslikely—as are "up-to-date" or "way of the future" or other terms indicating that their side is in fashion. [[Outgrown Such Silly Superstitions]] may be invoked.

Contrast [[Silly Rabbit, Idealism Is for Kids]] -- which—which often carries the same implication that "you are ignorant of the real world of today." See also [[Cool People Rebel Against Authority]] and [[Good Is Not Dumb]].

* This is the main point of contention between Kotetsu and Barnaby in ''[[Tiger and Bunny]]'' -- Kotetsu—Kotetsu is an old-fashioned [[Wide -Eyed Idealist|idealist]], while Barnaby is a new-age [[Punch Clock Hero]].

* In [[Ultimate Marvel]], at some point Ultimate Cap, who like all characters in that universe is somewhat less good, is taken aback and disturbed by the Ultimate incestuous relationship between Ultimate Quicksilver and Ultimate Scarlet Witch. Ultimate Wasp berates him for having "20th Century morals". Because [[Brother -Sister Incest]] is so modern and awesome, apparently. Not all the Ultimates actually felt that way, though--Hawkeyethough—Hawkeye did call the relationship sick.

{{quote| '''Jason:''' ''I don't know what clouds your judgment worse. Your guilt or your antiquated sense of morality.''}}

** There's an older example from [[Nineties Anti -Hero|Azrael]] during Batman: [[Knightfall]].

{{quote| Robin: The old Batman would never [[Pay Evil Unto Evil|descend to their level!]]<br />

** In ''[[Kingdom Come]]'', a killer goth cyborg with 666 tattooed on his chest calls Supes "Man of the 1950s" for daring to lecture the future's super-gang-bangers on morality. The setup for ''Kingdom Come'' revolved around Superman coming out of retirement, which he entered after Magog, an embodiment of the [[Dark Age|''Grim and Gritty'']] [[Nineties Anti -Hero]], displaced him as the top superhero, telling him that ideals like taking villains alive don't work anymore.

** In ''Superman At Earth's End'', Ben Boxer attempts to convince Superman that his adamant refusal to kill is old-fashioned and out of touch with reality. Superman's response, [[Memetic Mutation|made famous]] by [[Atop the Fourth Wall (Web Video)|Linkara]]; "Reality is, you're just an android. '''I AM A MAN!'''" But then he uses an enormously oversized gun to mow down the [[Villain of the Week|Villains Of The Week]] and their hench-army anyway, before [[Broken Aesop|delivering a message about how guns are bad]]. And now you know why Linkara featured this comic.

* Tom Strong had an issue with a glimpse into the future where he and his family fight a Nazi {{spoiler|(the son of a female Nazi supersoldier who had impregnated herself with a sperm sample taken from Tom while he was briefly captured during WWII)}} who uses this trope to attack the Strong family's idealism. Tom shoots back with a [[Shut UP, Hannibal|Shut Up Hannibal]] and makes the case that there have been tyrants and despots since the dawn of history, and that those ideologies are the ones that are obsolete and outdated.

* This was often given as the premise for the many "proactive" superhero teams that debuted in the [[Dark Age]], and the [[Nineties Anti -Hero]] in general -- somethinggeneral—something along the lines of "In these difficult times, we can no longer afford to just wait and react!": X-Force, Force Works, Extreme Justice, and the ultimate expression of the theme, [[The Authority]].

* ''[[Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade (Film)|Indiana Jones and Thethe Last Crusade]]'' in the [[Cold Opening]].

{{quote| ''If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One!''}}

* ''In Time After Time'', Jack the Ripper laughs at the hero&acute;´s nobility and says: "You&acute;re so Victorian!"

* In [[Dragonheart]], villain characters frequently sneer that Bowen's moral code -- thecode—the code of chivalry -- ischivalry—is old-fashioned and irrelevant.

* This is both invoked and discussed in ''[[The Avengers (Filmfilm)|The Avengers]]'', mostly regarding [[Captain America (comics)]]. The conclusion is that old-fashioned heroism is [[Justified Trope|exactly what people need]] during Earth's [[Darkest Hour]].

* In [[Dan Abnett]]'s [[GauntsGaunt's Ghosts]] novel ''The Armour of Contempt'', an officer tells Rawne that Gaunt will get him killed over [[Incorruptible Pure Pureness|a futile point of honor]], and that the Warmaster is amused by Gaunt's old-fashioned sense of honor.

* In [[Graham McNeill]]'s [[Warhammer 4000040,000]] [[Ultramarines (Literaturenovel)|Ultramarines]] novel ''Nightbringer'', {{spoiler|Chanda}} reveals himself as [[The Mole]], and the governor asks why. He cites this trope and hands them over to their enemies. {{spoiler|And is [[Rewarded Asas a Traitor Deserves]].}}

{{quote| ''You are the past. Weak, pathetic, clinging to your outdated loyalty to a withered corpse on a planet you have never even seen.''}}

* In [[Graham McNeill]]'s [[Warhammer 4000040,000]] [[Horus Heresy]] novel ''False Gods'', [[Ubermensch|Magnus the Red]] is determined to study the warp and gain power, because

{{quote| ''[[Above Good and Evil|Notions of good and evil]] fell by the wayside next to such power as dwelled in the warp, for they were the antiquated concepts of a religious society, long cast aside.''}}

* In [[James Swallow]]'s [[Warhammer 4000040,000]] novel ''[[Blood Angels (Literature)|Deus Encarmine]]'', Inquisitor Stele tells the Blood Angels before him that there will be resistance to his plans, because of those who cling to "ancient, decrepit dogma."

* In [[JRRJ. TolkienR. (Creator)R. Tolkien|JRR Tolkien]]'s ''[[The Lord of the Rings|Fellowship of the Ring]]'', Saruman's appeal to Gandalf:

{{quote| ''A new Power is rising. Against it the old allies and policies will not avail us at all. There is no hope left in Elves or dying Númenor. This then is one choice before you. Before us. We may join with that Power.''}}

* In [[Madeleine L 'Engle]]'s ''[[Many Waters]]'', the nephilim and their followers have this attitude, in contrast to their "brothers", the seraphim.

* In the [[Star Trek Novel Verse]], Emperor Kahless and his traditionalist philosophies get this from other Klingons, on occasion. But with the Klingon Empire reconfiguring itself in light of Martok’s reforms, the tide is turning. In the [[Star Trek: Voyager Relaunch]], Kahless tells [[Smug Snake]] and [[Complete Monster]] Kopek that ''he'' is going to become obsolete:

{{quote| "You will fall, Kopek, because you live only to hold on to your power and to accumulate more. Martok works daily to restore the empire to the path of honour, and there is no place for you on that path. You will learn the true way, or you will reap the seeds of self-destruction you have so carefully sown”.}}

{{quote| '''Michael:''' My faith protects me. My Kevlar helps.}}

* [[Columbo (TV)|Columbo]] is mocked by one of his suspects (who is a sort of Hugh Hefner character) for his ''middle-class morality'' at length.

* The Unlimited Blade Works route of ''[[Fate Stay Night|Fate/stay night]]'' and the Heaven's Feel route of same are all about this trope.

* [[Dominic Deegan]]: [https://web.archive.org/web/20130610042626/http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2005-03-06 Now I will destroy the spiteful old zombie and all the outdated ideals he holds so dear]

* [[The Simpsons (animation)|Ned Flanders]]

[[Category:Good Is Old Fashioned{{PAGENAME}}]]