Discworld/WMG: Difference between revisions

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Books with their own WMG page (if it’s not on the list and you have a guess for a specific book, please add it there)

 

* [[Night Watch (novel)/WMG|Night Watch]]

 

 

== Lord Vetinari ==

 

Vetinari, being the genre savvy fellow he is, knows about narrative casualty. Instead of just going along with it, or using it occasionally to his advantage (like Granny Weatherwax), Vetinari is actively seeking out what he deems to be 'main characters' and is manipulating them to either be on his side, or be afraid of him. At the least he is using them to further his own ends.

Think about it: in ''Unseen Academicals'', he mentions how he likes keeping track of people who are unusual. In ''The Truth'', he's been shown to go around to aspiring new business owners (or at least ones whose wares/business endeavors are strange, new, and potentially dangerous). He makes sure Moist and William de Worde know he's got an eye on them, and it all comes out to Ankh Morpork's (and so, by extension, his) advantage.

* ''Oh'' my God, this is possibly one of my favourite theories ''ever''. How have I never thought of this? For me, it's becoming canon.

 

No one's been a Time Lord yet on this page. Also, it would explain Fat!Vetinari of the first couple books. It's far from usual for a human being to go from really fat (I haven't read any of the books where he's described as such, but one of the [[Discworld]] pages on [[This Wiki]] describes the Vetinari of the first couple books as outright obese) to gaunt. Perhaps the reason he's implied to have looked much the same as a teenager as he does now is that, like Romana, he has a pretty good degree of control over his regenerations. It would also explain why he's so freakishly clever. ''And'' why when he [[I Do Not Drink... Wine|does drink... wine]], he only gets a little chatty and is a little less than blindingly fast in completing a [[Crossword Puzzle]], even though he doesn't often drink, and so would not have built up a tolerance, and, again, is quite gaunt. While it would be strange for a Time Lord to need a cane, as they have a low-key [[Healing Factor]], he may have healed ages ago and just thinks it gives him extra gravitas. Perhaps he [[Sword Cane|keeps assassiny things in it]].

** The main problem with the sword cane thing is that in ''Making Money'' he practically outright denies that he has one, and in ''The Truth'', his preferred weapon is a sharp knife thing. Also Findthee Swing is described as having a swordstick which rattled.

 

Despite his cunning, his magnetism, the scalpel-sharp wit he employs and a dexterity to juggle virtually anything (cities included), Havelock Vetinari is quite simply a 100% mortal man. He lives simply and has no thoughts for himself; yet a corkscrew mind is required to keep the wayward clock of Ahnk-Morpork ticking. The FACT that he could be—and in all likelihood, is—a mundane person is potentially more frightening than the idea of his being a vampire, zombie, Death/Time hybrid or the like. Look at what he's accomplished WITHOUT those supernatural traits. Then smile politely and back away slowly...

* Ooh, Look at you. you're so sharp you'll cut yourself.

* Do you mean that he is like Carrot's sword?

 

Knurd is a concept mentioned in several of Terry Pratchett's earlier Discworld books, and is defined as the opposite of being drunk: All of your comforting illusions about the world are stripped away, and you see the world as it really is. Vimes is mentioned by Sergeant Colon as suffering from this condition, requiring about two pints to get back up to the human norm, and this is used to explain his extreme cynicism. It is also defined as being an incredibly unpleasant experience.

 

*** He's knurd, not omniscient. Being knurd seems to sharpen one's senses, and make one better at using them. This (combined with his vast information-gathering network) might make him ''seem'' omniscient at times, but in the end, there's still a limit to what he can see.

 

Think about it. He knew Vimes when the latter was just a drunk. He was able to recognize that here was someone honest, capable, and fairly devoted to the city. As the series progresses, he's gradually raised Vimes from Watch Captain, to Watch Commander and Knight, to Duke. He's sent him abroad twice to act as Ankh-Morpork's representative, despite the fact that Vimes is in no way connected to the diplomatic corps. All done to make Vimes not only capable of ruling the city but acceptable to the various power groups- they all know he's trustworthy and fair even if they don't like him.

So why has he been doing all this? Carrot. Vetinari recognized early on that Carrot believed in Vimes and would obey his orders completely. If Vetinari were to die without a designated successor, either Carrot would be made king by popular acclaim, or the guilds would appoint a puppet ruler- causing so much corruption that Carrot would stage a coup. Either way, the city becomes a monarchy, and eventually stagnates. BUT if Vimes is Patrician, Carrot won't act against him. Moreover, if Vimes asks Carrot to assume the role of Patrician but not King- effectively asks him to renounce his claim to the throne while assuming leadership of the city- Carrot would do it. Since (as far as we know) the Patricianship is not a hereditary title, there's no risk of an unworthy heir taking the throne- especially since Carrot would probably run the same gambit to find his own successor. Vimes is the ONLY one who could convince/order Carrot to do this.

* Give or take a few years, Vimes and Vetinari are the same age. Plus, Vetinari is a genius whose foiled assassination attempts are at the very least in triple figures, and Vimes seems to enjoy attacking trolls, chasing criminals over rooftops, and having at least three near-death experiences per book. Why would Vetinari groom a successor who will probably be dead before he is? It makes no sense. Moist von Lipwig is MUCH more likely, by reason of age, skills, and personality.

 

It's been made quite clear that witches and wizards are gender-bound only by convention, not a biological imperative. Vetinari had the perfect qualifications to being a witch apart from his gender and birth. Consider how similar his way of leading Ankh-Morpork is to the way Granny Weatherwax runs Lancre, and how he knows so many tricks that are like magic unless you know how they are done (which doesn't make them any less magical). Like Granny Aching, Vetinari would never acknowledge the title of a witch, but fulfills every qualification in the book. He may even have talent for genuine magic, but like all good witches, refrains from ever using it.

** Granny Aching never got any official witch-training either, and never did anything exactly magical, but there's no doubt that she still was a witch in every way it counts.

*** He does do a ''little'' magic. He "borrows" the perceptions of rats, scorpions, and snakes (as seen in ''Men At Arms''); and communicates with them. This is by large his spy network; he just employs enough human ones for credibility.

*** That wasn't Borrowing, that was negotiation. The rats in his dungeon were probably related to the Clan from ''Amazing Maurice'', and the spiders and scorpions (who'd been winning out over the rats before he intervened) had presumably eaten enough of them to gain intelligence as well.

 

* He was also somewhat overweight in the beginning of the series.

** Maybe in the beginning he was overweight, then became extremely busy and survives on water, and thinned down because he ate so little.

 

Everybody dies eventually, and when Vetinari's time does come, who better to take over than the Flying Postman, the Man In The Golden Suit, who's done more by winging it than many men have done through careful planning?

* Possibly, ''this is only because his attempts to groom Captain Carrot for the office failed''. Carrot would be perfect for the job, being incorruptible, simple but with a powerful mind, and absolutely dedicated to the city. Unfortunately, he feels he can do more as a policeman than as a ruler, and is also afraid that if he became ruler, it might lead to {{spoiler|the return of the Kingship}}.

* A further possibility: the actual function of the Lord Vetinari Ward from the end of ''Making Money'' is to produce the perfect replacement for Vetinari—that is, a perfect ''copy'' of Vetinari. This is the real purpose behind the eyebrow-raising competition—it's actually a [[Secret Test of Character|Secret Test Of Vetinariness]].

** This has already happened

* Or, maybe he's grooming a council to take over for him. None of the people mentioned can fill Vetinari's shoes. But together, Moist, Vimes, Carrot, Drumknott, and possibly one or two others could.

* Another alternative, of course, is that Moist is just a convenient distraction. Vetinari doesn't intend to ''ever'' give up the Patricianship; see below.

** This might make a weird kind of sense - they both have the same unapproachable no-nonsense personalities, unswerving dedication to their cause, and over the course Vetinari's rule from Feet of Clay to Making Money, we've gone from human women having only the career choice of someone's wife, maid, or whore to mentions of being involved in the plans for the Undertaking, in the Dark Clerks, etc...

 

Lady Margalotta turned him during his great sneer.

* Problem: Vetinari walks around in the sunlight without a hat. While vampires can operate quite decently during the day, they need to wear hats or veils to ensure no strong enough sunlight hits them.

* Another problem: We see him shaving in ''Guards! Guards!'', and he uses a mirror to do so.

 

 

Think about it Vetinari definitely has vampiric traits (which would explain the popularity of the above theory-to the point where the author included it in one of the books as an in joke) but it's a theory that's been almost completely [[Jossed]], which is where the latent vampirism comes in.

* A very Discworld theory: By looking and acting so much like a vampire, and having so many people believe he's one, he'll become a vampire on his own.

 

Sure, he has to die sometime, but nobody says he has to ''pass on''. Like the books say: it may cost a million dollars to kill Vetinari, but it'll cost much more to make him ''stay'' dead.

* Alternatively, as a variation on the above theory, Vetinari is not a vampire yet (could he have been poisoned and injured by the gonne if he were?), but he is friends (and quite possibly more) with one. He will arrange to be turned near the end of his life.

** This would be similar to the way the "angels" offer worked for Moist (and Owlswick in ''Making Money''). "Lord Vetinari certainly is dead, we have his ashes [[Never Found the Body|right here]]. The new Patrician is ''completely'' [[Clark Kenting|different]]."

* Probably if this happens, he'll pass on, be cremated, face Death, look at Ankh Morpork and refuse to die because he thinks that the city is not yet ready for his departure, nor is his successor ready to step in. Then he'll turn around and go back to life. Maybe while they're about to cremate him.

Think about it. Even if he did hand-pick the next Patrician, he'd have little influence on the office after that. Undeath is an option, but it's not perfect, since there's still ways to get rid of a zombie or vampire, and having a power behind the throne would itself negatively affect the city. And after that, who knows when the next [[The Caligula|Mad Lord Snapcase]] will rise to power? So instead of working on one piece, he's working on reshaping the board; the rise of the Guilds, the changes in the Watch, and the re-opening of the Post Office are just a few of the ways he's changed the city itself, and a new Patrician would be hard-pressed to reverse Vetinari's progress. His successor is his life's work; the new Ankh-Morpork.

* Note that Vetinari now has a Device which can power every machine in the city. Perhaps he's literally granting it a life and will of its own; Hex could become the City's mind, and the Device its heart.

 

* This WMG would explain the theories that 'Vetinari is grooming X as a next Patrician'. He actually doesn't intend any specific person to rule, he is creating a network of services run by people with unusual talents that keep the city in check.

 

Think about it. Albert is ''very'' close to dying for real, and doesn't it seem so ''fitting'' for Vetinari? Admittedly, it wouldn't have the hilarious clash of personalities that Albert and Death have...

* Actually, another possibility is that Drumknott will be Death's new bookkeeper/assistant. He is an impeccable clerk. Vetinari might nominate him for the job. Like in that [http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6049181/1/As_Events_Dictate fic].

 

I don't think it's stated outright, but I'd probably assume Vetinari killed his predecessor, and I would bet that he had Downey's help doing it. The two were enemies in youth, but by the time of the books are reluctant allies. In ''Night Watch'', Vetinari killed one insane patrician when he was a lot younger, so he probably killed the other later. As shown in Hogfather, Downey falls into [[Even Evil Has Standards]], and so it's not out of the question that he would assassinate someone who really deserved it. IIRC, the previous patrician was the guy who was hung by his figgin (a pastry). Perhaps Downey poisoned his figgin and afterward, he and Vetinari took out any remaining supporters of the guy.

 

Vetinari has been able to do some strange things that can always be explained by him just feeling the emotional atmosphere of a room. He can tell when Moist von Lipwig is about to try to cough to announce his presence without looking at him. He knows exactly how long to stare at several characters for just long enough to make them uncomfortable, and then for 5 seconds after that. Plus, it just seems like something he could reasonably do, or at least a less mystical version of the same ability.

 

The so-called Fools' Guild is actually a massive spy network, to which Guild-trained jesters feed all sorts of valuable and/or scandalous information on their influential employers. Any spy network that extensive is going to need a few professional killers (not Assassins, different Guild) on staff, to covertly silence anyone who might betray its existence or circumvent its plans. Clowns or jesters are conspicuous by definition, but mimes are specially trained in skills like acrobatics, soundless movement, and holding perfectly still (a favorite tactic of Vetinari's, when ''he'' was trained in assassination!). They don't speak and wear makeup that makes them anonymous; if a mime attacks you, and you survive, you won't be able to identify them by voice or looks. And they tend to wear lots of black, like "official" Assassins do ... except mimes ''can'' substitute dark gray without getting chewed out for it, making them far stealthier than Vetinari's old classmates.

 

[[Terry Pratchett]] has hinted that Vetinari prohibited street theater because he knows something. Knowing that mimes are killers for their Guild, who don't make his fellow Assassins' usual mistakes, might just be it.

 

Like the zombie theory, but on a bigger scale. Vetinari will become the patron deity of Ankh-Morpork after his passing, and continue to guide the city for the rest of eternity. While simultaneously manipulating the other gods into making him their leader. That's right, Vetinari will become the de facto ruler of the world.

 

Vetinari is widely accepted by, if not most, at least a ''large'' number of fans as the series most awesome character. He appeared (possibly, or maybe an alternate version of him, or maybe just not him at all, but never mind) in the first book, becomes the series' reigning [[Magnificent Bastard]], and will cause a fairly massive outcry if Pratchett ever kills him off. There are quite a few succession theories, but Ankh-Morpork without Vetinari might be quite difficult to write about, as well. If Vetinari dies, it might be the right time for the Discworld to die with him.

* Or, as a similarly-climactic finale, the last Discworld book could be written with Vetinari ''as the protagonist''. The series' penultimate social magician, finally revealing the secrets of his Magnificent Bastardry for all to see!

* [[Jossed]] - it was {{spoiler|Granny Weatherwax}} who died in the final ''Discworld'' book.

 

1. He's a member of the aristocracy.

2. We know little about his origins other than having an aunt.

* It follows that he's Carrot's long lost brother, who was at school in the Assasin's Guild when Mom, Dad, and Little Brother went on the fated carriage ride. They're so different because [[Leaning on the Fourth Wall|they embody different narrative roles and archetypes]]. (And if Vimes ever found out, he'd go *spare*.

 

In ''Unseen Academicals'' Vetinari is very interested in the Orcs as a whole and, like Orcs, it has been shown he has a photographic memory, a quick mind and can pick up abilities almost immediately.

 

== [[The Witches]] ==

 

Granny Weatherwax has a grandmother, the legendary Alison Weatherwax. Some say she went bad, others (Granny for one, anyone within earshot of her for another) say she didn't. She left Lancre long ago, but so far we have no proof she died. We do know she killed Bela de Magpyr about 50 years ago, and would be 125 if alive today. This is not especially impossible on the Disc.

* The Discworld Companion as good as confirms this; long before Alison was mentioned in ''Carpe Jugulum'', she had an entry commenting that Lancre's registar's office had no record of her death.

** and your reasoning for that is? (I’m not complaining about the rather random theory, I’d just like to know how you got to it.)

 

Just as "there are no female wizards", enter Esk and the Wizards of Krull, "there are no male witches". But there are several people who have been referred to being people who are as close to be witches as possible whilst in trousers, such as Mr. Brooks and Jason Ogg. After all, 99% of magic is knowing one extra fact. Insulting Mr. Brooks (the Royal Beekeeper) is almost as dangerous as insulting a witch. Jason and Brooks both reacted in the "correct" way to elves, and seemed resistant to glamour; Jason even got warnings about the incursion. Even Granny herself considers witchcraft less about wearing pointy hats and doing magic, and more about a point of view. She considers Mrs Palm to be a "practically a witch" even though acts of negotiable affection would definitely not constitute witchcraft. The simple fact is that it is possible to be a witch whilst not being aware of that fact, so why not do that and be male?

* According to Granny, there are enchantresses (female wizards) and warlocks (male witches), but these don't really count somehow. Perhaps they have the innate abilities Wizards and Witches have, but lack the proper <s>narrative push</s> education/etc to use these abilities.

* Walter Plinge {{spoiler|or at least his daft side}} is another candidate for latent male witch. Who else but a witch could make dead rose stems bloom in the darkness, or {{spoiler|feign stabbing a man so convincingly that his target is actually compelled to die on cue}}? Witches are attracted to masks and stages, and Walter could've been an excellent witch if he hadn't opted to specialize in music instead.

 

In ''The Wee Free Men'', Tiffany relates the story of Mrs. Snapperly, an old woman who was cast out of her home and eventually died because people thought she was a witch. Tiffany's response: Become a witch herself to make sure no one ''dares'' try that again. When asked by Nanny Ogg why she got into witchcraft in ''The Sea and the Little Fishes'' Granny Weatherwax responds with "I dunno... even I suppose." In her youth, Granny witnessed a similar incident. Not identical, given Lancre's respect for witches, but same in the essentials, an act of cruel stupidity that someone with respect could have prevented. Thus, she sought out the most respected position she could think of: Witch.

 

This would explain the rapid increase in power in books following the mirror scene in ''Witches Abroad''. Notice how much more evident examples of non-headological magical prowess are demonstrated after the second "inside the mirror" scene. There's the business with The Swarm in ''Lords and Ladies'' and the "Weatherwaxing" of the Magpyrs in ''Carpe Jugulum.'' There are some signs, even, in ''Witches Abroad''. For starters: [[Never Found the Body|there was only one Weatherwax found]] after the business with the mirrors, Granny finally takes a look in a mirror later on, and she manages to work the wand despite having no actual experience with it. One Weatherwax has already been shown to be quite powerful, and we've seen in ''Wyrd Sisters'' what three witches can do together. Imagine what one Weatherwax with the power of two could pull off.

* In Equal Rites, Granny is perfectly able to duel the Archchancellor of Unseen University to a standstill, and that was back when they were really ''enthusiastic'' about [[Klingon Promotion]]. She was ''always'' that powerful, probably even more powerful than Lily, she just knows the consequences of using power too well.

** Additionally, ''Equal Rites'' showed that magically speaking, wizards are the [[Mighty Glacier|mighty glaciers]] while witches are [[Fragile Speedster|fragile speedsters]]. Granny's mastery of headology and all-around sneakiness means she has transcended that and become the magical equivalent to a ''[[Ninja]]''.

 

The human-ifying didn't tell him "Yer a human! Be human!" It just made his shape remember, "Oh, yeah, I'm a human..." only he had gotten used to his cat form over the last twenty years. His human side was keeping him alive and in shape ([[Isn't It Ironic?|heh]]) for however long it was between the end of an unusually long-lived cat's lifespan (or at least end-of-prime) and at least the events of ''Wintersmith''. He probably got convinced into being a cat after being lecherously rude in the presence of, or towards, a witch, and decided he ''liked'' being a cat (once he aged up a bit from being a kitten, anyway) because he could fight/eat/have sex with pretty much anything, since he was a cat and not a human any more.

* Impossible, I'm afraid. Greebo's eye is that of a cat, therefore he must have been born a cat; it is utterly impossible, even for the gods themselves, to change the manner or nature of a being's eyes. This is why the Duc had to wear sunglasses.

 

Nanny Ogg says so in ''Witches Abroad''. (This troper thinks she was speaking metaphorically, admitting for once that he ''wasn't'' still the cute little kitten she treated him as, but the theory appears to have been lost sometime in the past six months and it may as well be replaced.)

* Except Lancre hasn't been overrun with fiend-spawned cats, despite most of them being Greebo's offspring. Granted, there ''was'' that two-headed kitten, but that's just genetics.

 

They are, after all, basically the same person. Both of them are inclined towards badness and force themselves towards good. They both see the world as it really is, rather than how it's expected to be. Their respective mottos: "I can't be having with this," and "Not in my godsdamned city," express a more or less identical sentiment. They're both rather cautious about using magic. Both of them have a rather more optimistic counterpart/subordinate who's also just a bit better at what they do: [[Word of God]] says that Nanny Ogg is more powerful than Granny, but she has the good sense to keep it to herself, and Carrot is, in essence, singularly responsible for the modern Watch. There are a few differences, of course; Vimes isn't nearly as concerned with being right or winning as Granny is, and Granny doesn't have the same respect for the Rule of Law that Vimes does. But reincarnations don't have to be identical.

* Wait a minute, Nanny is more powerful than Granny? Could you provide a link to that, as it doesn't make sense. If Nanny was more powerful, then why was she not able to defeat Lily in ''Witches Abroad'', or resist the Elves' Glamour in ''Lords and Ladies''?

* The biggest problem with this WMG is ''pride''. Granny's, you can bounce rocks off. Vimes's is just barely enough to keep his badge from getting grimy.

** Vimes takes pride in the fact that he isn't proud. He's surrounded on all sides by his so-called betters, who universally deride trolls and dwarfs and people from Howondaland, but Vimes doesn't really think he's better than anyone else, which makes him better than the peerage. It's "practically Zen."

 

[[Incredibly Lame Pun|Spelling]] is [[X Is My Middle Name|her middle name]] after all. ([[Embarrassing Middle Name|Literally]].)

 

The witch books seem to be the ones most concerned with endings, and the end of an era and passing of the torch in particular.

 

Like her "little jiggit", she taught herself Borrowing, intuitively using this talent to commune with the sheep and her dogs. When she sensed her approaching death, as all witches do, she stretched this gift to its limit, and achieved a feat roughly on par with Granny Weatherwax's bee-swarm control: she Borrowed the slow, sleepy, collective mind of the Land Under Wave, ''the Chalk itself'', leaving her failing body behind. She's still there, a part of the land she loves, watching over Tiffany and occasionally helping her.

 

They're both proud, unsociable, highly talented [[Good Is Not Nice]] [[Guile Hero]]es who are thin and wiry, have intense pale eyes, and are interested in beekeeping. The major difference is that, apart from being rural and female, Esme Weatherwax is in an occupation that requires a certain amount of common sense and a broader skill set, and she's not in a position that allows for any self-destructive habits.

 

== [[The Watch]] ==

 

* But does Death necessarily know everything about a person on sight? He needs to know when someone will die, yes, but not necessarily much about their lives prior to that. Plus, if he were omniscient, he wouldn't need to consult reference books about things like the <s>dangerous</s> animals of Fourecks.

 

One of Sibyl's flaws is thinking that Nobby's behavior makes him a lovable rogue instead of - well - Nobby. Blood calls to blood and they both belong respectively to the two oldest families in the city.

 

Because really, what else could it be?

* I always thought that '=' just ''was'' the answer. When you solve an equation, as Detritus was doing, you basically simplify it by getting less and less numbers, in order to solve it. So if you got rid of ''all'' the numbers, you'd end up with a perfect equation, and that would be a good candidate for a Theory of Everything...if that makes sense. I think it does on the Discworld, anyway.

 

Both are amazingly kind, competent, ''simple'' humans who were raised by non-humans. Both teach their older, culturally-human mentors about humanity. And it's implied in ''Stranger'' that Mike's bodily form is just one of the incarnations of the Archangel Michael, who goes on "assignment" from time to time.

 

* As evidence, in Feet of Clay,{{spoiler|Nobby is touted as potential king, due to his lineage}} showing what a ''real'' lost noble would be like, after so many years of 'Good breeding'.

* But, due to the belief that the kings of Ankh were so good and pure, it means that Carrot would never take the throne while Vetinari rules, because the people believe that the kings of Ankh only did what was best for the city, and Carrot believes that that's Vetinari.

* Don't confuse Narrative Causality with Clap Your Hands If You Believe. Aside from a few specific cases (e.g. gods or the afterlife), Discworld does ''not'' do what people expect, it does what the narrative demands. Practically everyone believed the Disc was going to be destroyed by the Red Star in ''The Light Fantastic'', yet the story had other plans. Carrot is the way he is because the story demands a worthy king, not because Ankh-Morporkians (a cynical bunch) ever actually expect to find one.

 

As mentioned above, the nature of belief in Discworld affects the object of the belief. We have any number of examples, from Om to the Hogfather, but most pertinently Borogravia's Duchess, described (by herself, no less) as "only a rather stupid woman" when she was alive, but on her death was elevated by the prayers of her desperate subjects to a godlike force, albeit one with only the ability to move "small things". Now consider Vimes' offhand reference in 'Guards! Guards!' to the extreme unlikelihood of there being a God of Watchmen, what with it not being a very glamorous gig, and how Pratchett often likes to set these things up * decades* in advance. Then consider: Vimes as he is by the end of 'Thud!' is known to pretty much ''everyone'' as an unstoppable force. He's arrested a dragon, the Patrician, two whole countries, and he's fought trolls, werewolves, quasi-demonic dwarven rage beings, and the weight of history itself, and only lost to the last and even that was a close thing. Watchmen across the continent, in his own words, have been taught to salute him. He has earned the respect and loyalty of every Watchman in Ankh-Morpork, and they fear almost nothing quite so much as the prospect of his "going spare". It has been inferred by Angua ("Vimes puts words in his head") that a large part of the reason Carrot hasn't stepped up to claim his birthright is that "Old Stoneface" has very...''specific'' views about kings, and Carrot is bowing to those views out of respect for the man as much as for the good of the city. He has the respect of both Diamond King of Trolls and the Low King (and the abject terror, no doubt, of any dwarf that claps eyes on the exit wound left on his arm by the Summoning Dark), and by now the majority of the smart undead, both local and Uberwaldean, have figured out that playing "les bugres risibles" with slow, plodding Vimes is a quick route to pain. And finally, he has Lady Sybil, who just plain loves and believes in him, and if he keeps his six o'clock appointments the way he's shown so far, Young Sam will probably follow suit. Likely result: Dunmanifestin is in for a very nasty surprise when Samuel Vimes bites it. Especially since, given that it's Vimes, he won't like it one little bit.

* It's also worth noting that Vimes has effectively trained most of the watch officers all across the Sto Plains and up into the Ramtops, so he's already got a hell of a lot of believers/worshippers ''in potentia''. In fact, I believe the generic term for a watchman was (as of either ''Fifth Elephant'' or ''Thud!'') a "sammy".

** The problem with your refutal is the "self-proclaimed". Like most of the stuff that seems to happen to Vimes, if it happens it's just gonna happen to him (like the being promoted Commander of the Watch, Knighted and subsequently... [[En Duked]]?), he'll complain about it, mostly to himself, then just go on as if nothing happened. Even if he becomes a god, he'll still be a Watchman first and foremost. Plus, it opens up the chance for Vetinari to reinstate him in the Watch as "ethnic minority" (as he'd be, you know, a demigod), if only because that'd piss Vimes off royally.

* It would begin slowly, first with watchmen and civilians from outside Ankh-Morpork simply not believing Vimes is dead, because Vimes cannot die if there are still things to be done -he'd go spare!-. So people would refuse to believe news about his death and would begin saying he is around, looking over people, specially looking over watchmen, not to protect them, but to see they do a good day of work. Watchmen would begin whispering that if you don't do your job properly, "Old Stoneface will go spare", and that he is bound to show up if things get too out of hand. Maybe it would all be an inside joke for the watchmen, up until the point when a copper is in a tight spot and the joke is the only thing there to keep him from giving up. Eventually, the knowledge of the fact that he is not alive would mix with the common sense that it doesn't mean he's gone. So it would not begin as worship but as respectful fear. "Who watches the watchmen?" "Well, Vimes of course! And death ain't gonna stop him!", and a bit of "WWVD?" So divinity would "happen" to Vimes in a similar, but not exactly the same, that it happened to the Duchess. Eventually, after a couple of years, all it would take would be for one copper to believe Vimes is keeping them safe somehow, and some fortunate coincidence happening, for the faith to become widespread very soon. Then Vimes wakes up one day on Dunmanifestin and goes spare because if being a duke is bad, being a demigod is simply too much, maybe he would even try going to the Disc to tell people to stop believing in him, and we all know how well that would work. And the beauty would be that there won't actually be a god of the watchmen, because a divine Vimes would not be likely to actively interfere with the day to day work of Discworld's watchmen. He would still be very bad news to those gods and anthropomorphic personifications who enjoy playing with people's lives.

** [[Smug Snake]]: "Who are you?" Vimes: "The Law you sons of bitches!"

* This [http://archiveofourown.org/works/244534?page=1#comments fic] lays it all out brilliantly.

 

He is the son of the richest family in Ankh-Morpork, so the nobles wouldn't be able to complain that he 'isn't one of them'. He is being raised by Vimes, so he will probably be incorruptible. With his upbringing, he will be perfect for dealing with other races (trolls/dwarfs). Drumknott is being trained to act as his regent in case Vetinari dies before Sam Jr. is old enough to become Patrician. Moist will teach him what Vimes can't about dealing with people, and will probably be the poor sod who has to find all of Vetinari's secrets in the Palace. (And how to get into them. And how the route changes each day of the week.) If Carrot and Angua have a child, he or she will probably be his most loyal friend, which will mean that the obvious alternative (the latest 'heir to the throne') is not interested in fighting him.

* Young Sam is really in the best position for this. He's got his parents, Carrot, Vetinari, and potentially Moist to learn from. You could even swing Susan Sto Helit as being part of his "education" if you wanted to. ([http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6198527/1/Young_Sams_Teacher fic] for that.) Knowing Old Stoneface, though, about the only advantage Young Sam isn't going to get is an Assassins Guild education... but his selection of role models and "tutors" more than makes up for it. And imagine if Angua and Carrot had a ''daughter''... If they avoid the problem of [[Unlucky Childhood Friend]], then together they've got a lock on the patricianship and the throne (even if they'd be raised to believe that monarchy isn't how things should be done, they could still take advantage of other people's tendency to "bend at the knees" to secure their power base).

*** Vetinari is in his early fifties, give or take ten years at the most. Young Sam is a baby. Patrician, maybe; ''next'' Patrician, probably not. Although I guess it's possible; Vetinari's quite capable of lasting another two or three decades.

 

In his early appearences Detritus is apparently [[The Ditz|really dumb even by troll standards]]. He has worked in many different places and been fired from all of them.

Later on he joins the Watch in an attempt to become more respectable and turns out to be fairly intelligent (sure, he has his special helmet, but can a cooling fan really make that much difference?). His hate for drug dealers also seems somehow personal. A possible explanation is that slab very nearly ended up ruining his life, or at least his relationship with Ruby.

 

For the cheap seats - the Green Lantern Corps are made of individuals with extraordinary willpower. Vimes defeated an entity of pure malevolent rage that is an untold age with willpower alone. The only reason they haven't come for him already is because Vimes still doesn't trust magic one bit, and put yourself in his boots for a moment - if you saw a flying green ring bearing down on you, what would you think?

* More likely the Guardians have had to actively program the rings such that Vimes could ''never'' become a Green Lantern. A man basically built of a pure willpower core with a few scraps of meat attached is fine, but he's also completely anti-authoritarian (despite being a figure of authority himself)--would you want to walk up to him and say, "We've decided that we (and only we!) have the authority to run the galaxy, because we're older and smarter and ''better'' than the rest of you idiotic children. By the way, here's a ring of limitless potential that can do absolutely anything you tell it to do." Vimeses have a habit of doing bad things to leaders that they suspect don't have the best interests of their subjects at heart—Wolfgang, Lorenzo the Kind, Lord Rust... the ones that survive don't do it happily.

** The Guardians have had quite enough of that from Alan Scott, who has a ring but isn't a Corps member (and both sides are happier that way). They '''really don't''' want to deal with another one.

The readers were never told what the being looks like, only that the symbol resembles an eye with a tail.

 

* Carrot's sword is magical in the same sense that absolute zero is a temperature.

 

That's what makes it so dangerous - it doesn't care what it should be doing according to the Narrative Convention. It just cuts things.

* Canon, except for the phrasing of the title line. It's real, it's just a sword, and in being so on the Discworld, not ''just'' a sword, but a '''''sword'''''. It's not as fluffy magical as everything else on the Discworld, it's a sugar-glass blade in a candyfloss world. As you said, it doesn't care about the narrative convention, i.e. tropes as expressed via Narrativium. It just cuts things.

 

As in, the actual personification of them. Vimes inshakable will is the reason he has not given into his purpose, struggling against his destiny. Carrot was left for the dwarves to raise like Lobsang Ludd/Jeremy Clockson were left at the Thieves' and Clockmakers' guilds.

 

 

 

At one point Carrot says he's ''almost'' sure his mother's female. Which would leave room for doubt even if he was sure his father was male. Since traditionalist dwarfs are determinedly uninterested in each others' private lives and unaware of each others' gender, there's no reason they would subscribe to human perceptions of sexuality. As far as they're concerned, a dwarf is a dwarf. Sometimes dwarfs fall in love and get married. Sometimes they then have children. Sometimes they don't. The whys and wherefores are their business, and Carrot's parents do not seem to have children (except for the one they adopted).

* ...''That's brilliant.'' Carrot's adopted! (Not sarcasm, it's just so easy to forget he's not biologically a dwarf, despite being over six feet tall with no beard to speak of and {{spoiler|possible heir to the Throne of Ankh-Morpork}}.) In one of the earlier books where dwarf sexuality is mentioned, one of the steps (the one after getting married) is to hope they're right.

** Probably the latter, as it's apparent from his conversation with his adoptive father in ''Guards! Guards!'' that the dwarf Carrot knows as his Mum is the same one who became attached to him when he was found.

 

Because the universe seems determined to make Vimes hire people he doesn't want in his Watch. Now that he's got a vampire, there is only one hurdle left to clear.

* That does seem possible, although the universe would have to work quite a bit harder even though Vimes is not strictly prejudiced against wizards the way he is against vampires. As wizards try not to interfere with the ordinary working of the city anymore, and Vimes (and presumably Vetinari) would not like magic used in policing in the sense of 'magic [criminals] into cells...wave a wand to find out who's guilty...magic men good' (from Thud), then a wizard in the Watch would only need be used as a sort of liason, to step in whenever a magical crime occurred in the city. As this is presumably something the wizards would already come down on, or the Watch would inform them of if it happened, there would seem no need for such an officer. I wouldn't be surprised if Ridcully joined the citizen's militia though (I still love how the President of the Guild of ''Thieves'' is a special constable of the Watch via the militia).

** It'll be Rincewind. Technically a wizard, but no fear of abusing magic at all!

*** On account of how he really doesn't have any!

** Only it'll be one of those honorary paper badges, like they give little kids, and the Librarian currently has. Although, mentioning the Librarian...

** Not only is the Librarian a Special Constable, it is mentioned in ''Men at Arms'' that the University Dean tried to join the Militia. If a wizard does get involved in the Watch, the Dean is not to be ruled out.

** Then again, Vimes has mentioned before that he ''likes'' the Wizards, mainly because the problems they cause tend to have nothing to do with the city's laws, and don't lead to paperwork.

* ''CSI: Ankh-Morpork''

*** Nah, that'd be NWCIS (Night Watch Criminal Inbvestigative Services).

 

She seems to be a grown up vampire, but is actually only in her fifties, much younger than the "teenage" Lacrimosa. Since you can either be born a vampire or become one after being bitten by one, the most reasonable explanation is that Sally was bitten as an adult or teenager.

** she cant be: vimes asked her about her family history and she specificly mentions that the only thing that runs in her family is biting.

*** Or maybe Lacrimosa ''acts'' like a teenager because she's a [[Alpha Bitch|spoiled bitchy brat]], and she appears younger than Sally because she just happens to look young.

 

His physical description isn't a great way from that of {{spoiler|Nutt}} - a short, ugly humanoid with a talent for not dying. Much has been made of nobody being ''quite'' sure Nobbs is human, and he seems to be considered human mostly by default, as no other race has claimed him - orcs haven't been around to do so. His unpleasant behaviour is also a bit closer to his ancestral calling than the carefully-conditioned {{spoiler|Nutt}}.

 

*** Or Granny. It's known that the Ironfoundersson mine is in or near Lancre: Magrat gets mentioned in ''Guards! Guards!'' as the nearest person who knows about spelling, and in ''Lords and Ladies'' it's proposed that the captured elf be turned over to Carrot's dad for disposal.

*** On the other hand, it could be argued that Carrot is actually using Vetinari, since it is heavily implied he's keeping his identity secret for only as long as Vetinari does a good enough job that a great king isn't actually needed as much as a good policeman.

** Moist Von Lipwig. Single-handedly (with provocation and threats of death) revived the Royal Post Office in a matter of days, before sorting out the crumbling economy, again in a matter of mere days. This fits with the theory that he is being groomed for the patricianship, (and possibly more) by Vetinari.

** Tiffany Aching. Recognized by the Nac Mac Feegle as possessing the potential to become the 'Hag of all Hags' it is not unlikely that she, like Lipwig by Vetinari, is being Groomed by Granny Weatherwax for a position in the group. Probably Granny's own.

*** As to where it came from, this is the same group of beggars that called Death "Mr Scrub" in ''Soul Music''. "He didn't know why. On the other hand, he was among people who could hold a lengthy conversation with a door."

**** “Jossi, Lady Hermione, Little Sidney, Mr Viddle, Curly, The Judge, Tinker and Burke. They’re called all together Andrews.” But in Honorary Beggar’s Guild Member thinkspeak.

 

== Hex will become linked to the Library, and thus become as close to all-powerful as is possible within the stories. ==

* He's an only child.

** In this world, maybe, but he was really born on the Disc, which couldn't handle that much magic, and the laws of reality were forced to extrude him into another world (ours) in the role of supreme god of the Disc.

 

== The Rite of AshkEnte has been deliberately [[Bowdlerized]] over the years, to the mutual benefit of everyone involved. ==

The recurring [[Death]]-summoning ritual is described as requiring a vast amount of the typical magical summoning apparatuses, or more simply with several sticks and an egg or mouse blood. But even the method used by the wizards has been toned down. After all, if the proper rite was cast, Death would truly be bound in Unseen University, potentially causing worldwide problems and irritating him in general. Thus they use one of the lesser methods instead, one that costs them a great lesser deal of resources and doesn't actually bind Death (he's made it somewhat clear that he sticks to his part of the rite out of politeness), though being significant enough to require his attention. Incidentally, Albert went through the whole shebang when trying to invoke the rite backward. He couldn't be too cautious.

** Alternatively, Ridcully knows the right Rite but none of the new wizards do. Would YOU teach younger wizards how to summon Death?

* [[I Take Offense to That Last One|It doesn’t benefit the mouse or the chicken foetus]].

* I had a theory that explained it as a corruption of d'harak (not-dwarf, including humans and trolls rather than specifically dwarfish blood traitors), the "d'-" noun prefix meaning "something that is" (as opposed to "something that isn't" or "something that is so ''not'' I don't even what"), and "-'ak" or "-ak" being a negative (so [drud][ak]'[ak] ''literally'' translates to "[surface-seeing][not]'[not]", assuming Dwarfish negatives stack instead of cancel, or "one who does not get out in the fresh air enough" for a less respectful translation)... Anyway, I went from that to working out the basis of possibly the entire Dwarfish language. The short of it is, it's a very, ''very'' rude way to call a dwarf not-dwarfish, which in itself is a powerful offense and, if not contested, dishonor. This is why it has mostly been applied to female dwarfs (as opposed to those whose gender equals "Dwarf" and just happens to have what I would assume is a uterus. See Lady Sybil's "they're both ''dwarfs''" in regards to ''Bloodaxe and Ironhammer''. For example, a very rude dwarf might call [[Kavorka Man|Casanunda]] a "ha'ak".)

** Then again, Casanunda seems to advertise his ''male'' gender (unless we really need to go back and do a serious double take for all his scenes, let alone the admittedly broad-minded Nanny Ogg's reactions to them) pretty overtly, so wouldn't that still be covered by the idea that "ha'ak' means something like "uncovered", "out of the closet", "unduly advertizing their gender"? If there is a whole worked-out account of the dwarfish language somewhere, though, a link would be great ([[Canon]] ''or'' [[Fanon]], but it would be nice to know which).

 

They're not just psychopaths (which is a somewhat heritable trait anyway), but the same ''kind'' of psychopath: where the rest of the series' villains are either [[Well-Intentioned Extremist]]s or obviously threatening psychos with a [[Red Right Hand]], Carcer and Andy are both described as fundamentally normal-looking, sadistic, and the kind of person who'd kill a man in the middle of a crowd and expect to get away with it. Provided that Carcer's at least in his early thirties in ''Night Watch'' and Andy's not past twenty in ''Unseen Academicals'', the ages work out plausibly. The only real problem with this is that there are a few mentions of Andy's dad, who is most definitely alive, well, and not (exceptionally) wanted by the Watch five or six years after ''Night Watch'', but all that absolutely has to indicate is that he ''believes'' he's his wife's son's father.

** Alternatively, Mr or Mrs Shank is Carcer's child with a woman he met while in the past, making Andy Carcer's grandson instead.

 

== The Lady is Rincewind's mother. ==

* Actually, what he specifically says is that she ran away before he was born, but that's more or less too confusing to be admissable. I've seen a fanfic on these lines.

 

== If [[Terry Pratchett]] dies in the middle of writing a book, Neil Gaiman will finish it. ==

He's a good friend, he's the only person the readers will accept, and he almost finished The Salmon of Doubt, or so I hear.

 

== Ridcully is an either an avatar of or a god of the hunt ==

 

 

== Mr. Slant died during or just before the Civil War ==

** It may possibly be that 'no' lawyers was a little bit of an exaggeration, and that what was meant was 'not enough persons with judicial training to actually have a trial'. After all, Slant may have been willing to appear as prosecution or defense, but that leaves someone else to take the place on the other side - and, of course, you need a judge, as well.

 

* Dwarves bang on about not having priests a few times, though. I'm sure they otherwise ''love'' the idea of eternal words guiding things.

 

We know that the History Monks were somewhat inexact when they pieced history back together after the Glass Clock shattered. Someone got a few bits of the original time line of Soul Music mixed in with the "official" time line. Luckily, the pieces that got put back in were fairly innocuous, and resulted in a few people remembering things they should have, rather than [[The End of the World as We Know It|The End of the Disc as We Know It]].

 

 

== Rincewind is a much more powerful wizard than he appears to be. ==

Rincewind has looked into the Octavo, which contains the most powerful spells in the world, and survived.

* Yes, but that was because the Octavo sort of knew it will later need him. I think that's even said in canon.

*** Isn't it sort of stated in the cannon that the reason he is so magicless was that all of his magic was used in containing one of eight, and it seams to me that reading out all eight would leave him changed in some way. So perhaps his insanely convoluted life-glass is not only due to the Lady. And, at least to me, it appears that Rincewind in a manner of speaking also stands at the borders...

*** Where else would you hide powerful magic besides in person completely worthless at magic and where no one would expect to find magic anyway? In him of course.

 

== Uberwald has a citizen named Sucking My Own Blood Diblahh. ==

 

== Susan is (or will become) Neil Gaiman's Death. ==

 

== The wizards aren't allowed to have sex... ==

* Vimes is going to ''become'' the apparently non-existent God of Watchmen.

 

[[Category:Wild Mass Guessing/Literature]]