Doctor Who/Headscratchers/2009 Specials: Difference between revisions

*** Because it ''[[Name DarNameDar|Looks like a Cyberking]]'', and Cyberkings are ships.

* Alright, I'm ready to face complaints of being part of a [[Fan Dumb]] or [[Misaimed Fandom]] or operating on [[Blue and Orange Morality]] or whatever, but this has been bugging me for over a week now and I just NEED to get it out. What is it with everyone acting like the Doctor crossed the [[Moral Event Horizon]] in Waters of Mars? That he has become some kind of monster that crossed the line or something? Because frankly, I don't see it. He went [[Screw Destiny]] to save some lives. That's pretty much a hero-exclusive thing. He went all arrogant and had a bit of an [[A God Am I]] thing going on, boasting about saving "unimportant people" and being the Time Lord Victorious (am I the only one who thinks that's an awesome title?), fine. But those were just words. He always had a thing towards the [[Badass Boast]]. I'd feel boastful too if I just defied the universe like this. People don't just change suddenly at the snap of a finger. He'd still be the Doctor in the future. Even if he decided to change future events, it'd be likely a nicer universe than one that sends Time-Dragons to eat everyone involved at an inconvenience. Then there's the thing that he risked a different future. So what? That it was a different future doesn't mean it would be a BAD future. YMMV if it's worth the risk I guess, but trying would make him a [[Well -Intentioned Extremist]] at worst. And as he said, Adelaide could've just inspired her ancestors by being alive and at home. It's not really so great a change that it could end up in the world being ruled by Daleks or something. And even then, the Doctor would find a way to fix it. Sure, maybe he'd eventually end up changing all of history, but if he had good intentions for it, that'd at least be somewhat acceptable. I don't see him as a future Evil God-Emperor or something, anyway. Now the "the rules of time shall obey me!" thing? Yeah, that's pretty arrogant, I admit and defies typical hero humility rules. But the Doctor always was a bit arrogant. Nothing wrong with that, as long as he stays a good person. Besides, I myself see it as a bit of a "Make the power your own to do good" thing. Similar to what [[Dark Is Not Evil]] people try to do? You're tropers, you should know what I mean. The point I am trying to make, even if he went a bit over the edge ego-wise, there is nothing in that episode to warrant everyone acting like he became a monster. If a classical hero is faced with the choice of letting people die for some rules or saving people and breaking the rules, most of them would screw the risks and try to save lives anyway. Again, the Doctor would be a [[Well -Intentioned Extremist]] at worst. Maybe that's not his style, but he's not going to turn into the Master overnight.

** This, I suspect, is going to be a bit of an essay, but I can't help but feel that some points are being missed in the above posts (and in a lot of these "oh, well Adelaide could have inspired her granddaughter anyway" style arguments in general) that I'd like to address.<br /><br />Firstly, if nothing else, unintentionally or not the Doctor ''drives a woman to commit suicide''. We can go backwards and forwards and quibble about whether Adelaide could have inspired her granddaughter in person or whether the future would have been the same or different, or whether she did it to spite him or whether she did it to teach him a lesson or whether she did it because she was broken by the uncertainty the Doctor's actions directly contributed or what her motives were. But fact remains, the Doctor's actions directly contributed towards Adelaide deciding to take her own life. That's pretty bad all by it's lonesome, and not just because it makes what he did 'less of a triumph'. Not surprising that people would take a dim view of the Doctor there.<br /><br />Secondly, cliche or not, there's a reason that people say "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". People have gone on to do terrible things having started out with good intentions. The Doctor might not become evil (although I don't believe anyone is saying that he is) and he might not do so overnight, but good intentions or not, he is putting himself on a path that can lead to him committing great evil. Because even if 'all' he's doing is becoming a [[Well -Intentioned Extremist]], that's still pretty bad. Because an extremist by his or her very nature can't see when too far is too far. The Doctor is becoming blinkered, and whether he starts off with good intentions or not, that can have terrible consequences. Because good intentions by themselves don't mean a damn thing; it's what the end consequence is, and the end consequence here is, well, as mentioned above a woman is driven to commit suicide. When your first supposed glorious triumph ends with a woman killing herself, it's hard to see how that bodes well for the future, or how any amount of good intentions makes that okay.<br /><br />Thirdly, the Doctor does not just become 'a bit arrogant'. That's an understatement if ever there was one. It's very quietly done, but he essentially decides that being the last Time Lord means he's ''unquestionable lord and master of all of time and space''. That he can do whatever he wants, even fundamentally alter history itself and change the fabric of the universe to suit his will, and if anyone doesn't like it? "Tough." "That's for me to decide." (Yeah, those are direct quotes from him when someone challenges him about all this. Should tell you everything you you need to know about the mindset of the Time Lord Victorious towards people with dissenting viewpoints). Anyone -- even the Doctor -- both having that kind of power and deciding to use it, quite frankly, a ''fucking horrific idea''. Adelaide is right; no one should have that kind of power or try to use it. Because ''no one can be trusted with it.'' Not even the Doctor. There's a reason people ''also'' say "power corrupts".<br /><br />Fourthly, know who else thinks and sounds like this? The Master. Yeah, the guy who's tried to take over the universe a few times (and oh yeah, once destroyed a huge chunk of it trying to do so) because (a) he's completely nuts and (b) he thinks it'd be better with him in charge. The guy who the Doctor's spent most of the series, old and new, opposing on general principle. When the Doctor starts thinking and talking and acting like one of his oldest enemies? That's not a good thing.<br /><br />Fifthly, what makes all of this horrifying (and where I suspect the point is being missed)? As the OP points out, when he's doing all of this, the Doctor's not that different from what he usually does and how he usually acts. But the crucial thing is, he's clearly crossed a line. Yes, he saves lives, but there's a difference between saving lives because it's the right thing to do and saving lives because you want to make the universe and everyone in it your bitch and let everyone know that "I'm the winner!" -- the former is admirable, the latter is kind of monstrous, particularly since it's heavily implied that the Doctor is just doing this because he's terrified of his own impending death and wants to prove that he can change it if he wants, not out of any genuine benevolence. There's a different between flaunting the fact that you're the cleverest person in the room and deciding that everyone -- except for a few people who happen to impress you -- are "little people" who aren't really that important. Who the fuck is the Doctor to decide who's meaningful and who's a 'little person'? There's a difference between boasting a bit about how good you are and calling ''yourself'' something like "the Time Lord Victorious" -- and seriously, people, that's the kind of thing ''supervillains and mad dictators'' call themselves. If you're giving yourself a name that [[Josef Stalin]] or Kim Jung Il would have happily given themselves if they'd gotten the opportunity, you might want to rethink things. The point being, the Doctor's clearly gone from being a lovably arrogant know-it-all to someone who thinks he knows best for the entire universe. That can't end well.<br /><br />Sixthly; '''''it doesn't end well.''''' ''That's'' the point. Not that the Doctor's gone evil, but that his arrogance and hubris has had terrible consequences. And the key redeeming thing about it is that the Doctor ''realises'' this. He realises he's gone too far, that whether Adelaide could have lived and inspired the future or whether '''TIME ITSELF''' interfered to kill Adelaide, he's let himself get out of control and that a good person has suffered and died -- and worse, taken her own life -- because of him. That for all his good intentions, for all that he dismissed Yuri and Mia, the irony is that they get to live and the big prize he was after, the reason he was all so glowy and triumphant and smug? Is dead anyway. His arrogance has resulted in exactly the same thing he set out to prevent happening (and remember, he ''wasn't interested in the slightest'' about saving Mia and Yuri when it came down to it, they were just the 'little people' he happened to catch as well), only it's worse now because it's directly his fault that it happened. And really, it all comes back to point 1 -- for all the arguments we can have about whether the future would or could have been the same if Adelaide had lived or died, ultimately, the Doctor's arrogance led to a woman deciding to kill herself. Even if nothing else, ''that's'' why it's bad.

** They even reference this in-episode. As the Doctor is leaving the Ood, they mutter something about "events in the past are occurring now", i.e. there's some [[Timey -Wimey Ball]] stuff going on because the evil plot (if successful) will culminate in the end of time itself. Probably it's physically impossible for the Doctor to arrive at the scene at the proper time.