Devil but No God: Difference between revisions

{{trope}}

{{quote|'''Jonathan:''' "There's good and bad everywhere, don't you think?"

 

Works of fantasy frequently contain a powerful evil spiritual being who's behind most or all of the evil in the world, a [[Satan]]-figure or chief [[God of Evil]]. This Devil is a very real being with followers, worshippers and real power, who takes an active hand in making trouble for the world. But in an odd twist, a lot of stories leave out the Devil's good counterpart; either there is no benevolent God, or he's only talked about and [[The Gods Must Be Lazy|never actually does anything]]. This is particularly [[Egregious]] if the series makes a big deal of the [[Balance Between Good and Evil]].

 

Another alternate explanation is that in most cases He knows [[The Hero|the heroes]] [[Omniscient Morality License|don't actually need His help]], so He doesn't give it. Another reason is that God might easily become the ultimate [[Invincible Hero]] or [[Deus Ex Machina]] (in fact, the very name [[Deus Ex Machina]] came from the habit of Greek and Roman plays to have one of the gods come down from the heavens to fix up the mess the others had created), so the writers need to [[Deus Exit Machina|get rid of him]]. Possibly [[Justified Trope|justified]] if [[Rousseau Was Right|people are significantly harder to make bad than good]].

{{examples}}

* ''[[Berserk]]'', which has the "God Hand", a group of five powerful demons as the closest thing to gods. The only other set of deities, the Four Elemental Kings, are said to be loving and protective of humanity, but only seen to help out if consciously summoned.

** {{spoiler|The Idea of Evil}}, who the Godhand answer to, seems to be the closest thing to a God in the ''Berserk'' universe, but it's only (so far) been seen in a semi-canon chapter that was cut for spoilering the plot. However, it's pretty much both [[God of Evil|God]] [[God Is Evil|AND the devil]].

** This line refers mostly to Scar, but it's given in a floating speech bubble above Bradley who is framed against the sunset. {{spoiler|Ironically, since he eventually turns out to be Wrath, who "has [his] own pride as a homunculus."}}

 

* The voice of God has been heard in certain DC comics, usually talking to [[The Spectre]], who works as its Agent of Vengeance. However it has never been actually seen, and only seems to interfere in VERY rare occasions, even when the [[The DCU]] is threatened with destruction.

** A [[JLA]] miniseries starring Zauriel the Angel climaxed with the rogue angel Asmodel storming the palace of God only to find it empty. Zauriel lectures Asmodel on the naivete of expecting God to be some mere corporeal form: God is ''everywhere'' and swiftly sends Asmodel to Hell.

** It is also briefly implied that the two beings are actually two aspects of the same being, who is both creator and destroyer, good and evil.

 

* Even present in ''[[Ghostbusters]]'' and its related media; while there's plenty of evil gods and lesser deities (like Gozer) running around, there's no indication of any good gods opposing them, so the Busters have to make do with science.

** Well, Marduk appeared in one episode of the cartoon, and was a depicted as a fairly benevolent "god of the city". He still needed the Ghostbusters' help to defeat his ancient enemy Tiamat, though.

* In ''[[Fallen]]'', there is a demon essentially free to take over people's bodies and use them to commit murder. Apparently, the forces of Heaven are not concerned enough to show up and do something about it.

 

* ''[[Redwall]]'', the picture provider, has several bad guys mention "Hellgates", and one of them drops the name of Vulpuz, some sort of evil deity. The good guys have an afterlife called Dark Forest, and earlier in the series at least the appearance of having actual religion, although it is never discussed. (This is pretty odd for a series whose title location is an ''abbey,'' populated by what was clearly, in the beginning, a monastic order. The not-quite-religion fades as the series continues.)

** There is also the fact that in the original "Redwall" book, the giant adder is named Asmodeus, which one in-universe character identifies as "the name of the devil himself". In real world mythology, Asmodeus is depicted as various kinds of demon king, depending on which version one reads, but is certainly a very high ranking lord of Hell. The same book also has Cluny casually killing someone and saying "Tell the devil Cluny sent you".

* ''The [[Dresden Files]]'', interestingly enough given the series's [[Fantasy Kitchen Sink]] approach to the supernatural community. In the first couple of books, Harry did loosely acknowledge God, but much more attention was paid to demons, fairies (the literal sort), gods, and dark wizards. Harry does mention a few times that Faith has Power, though it isn't "magic" in the same way that he does it. Eventually, as the magic system became more fleshed out, God starts getting more mention as the most-worshiped (and thus most powerful in-universe) supernatural fellow, though even some of the ''Knights of the Cross'', communing with ''corporeal Angels'' and wielding swords with the ''Nails of the Cross'' in them against the ''manifest forces of darkness'', aren't entirely sure that they are God-fearing guys. This trope is almost completely gone in the series, and has been rapidly disappearing since Harry started duking it out with Fallen Angels, at which point Angels started to intervene on his behalf. Having had conversations with ''Uriel'' and now wielding Angelically-fueled magic on occasion, it would be pretty impressive to ''not'' acknowledge His existence. Harry has even once relied on ''literal'' [[Deus Ex Machina]] for one of his plans. Guess who shows up?

 

* ''[[Supernatural (TV series)|Supernatural]]'' has an interesting history with this:

* In ''[[Charmed]]'', the Devil ("the Source", short for "Source of All Evil") appears in several successive versions, but the show is maddeningly vague about who or what is in charge of "up there". The "White lighters" answer to "the Elders", but who do THEY answer to? Blank-out.

** The Elders seem to be the highest authority for the side of good, considering they were the ones who released the power of the Gods onto the mortals. Even so, they never actually do anything, except make things even more difficult for the main characters.

* [[Married... with Children|Al Bundy]] meets Lucifer, but cannot disturb God: He's watching "Knott's Landing".

 

* [[Tom Waits]]' "Heartattack and Vine" gives an inversion: "There ain't no Devil, there's just God when he's drunk."

** And [[Robin Williams]] follows up: "If God drinks, he could get stoned. Look at a duck-billed platypus-- I think you think he might."

 

* Thoroughly averted in [[The Bible]], where Satan gets far less screen time than God.

** This trope is actually inverted in most of the Old Testament. Satan appears only in the First Book of Chronicles, Job, and Psalm 109.

 

* * [http://bogleech.com/mortasheen.htm Mortasheen], as it usually does, does this in a weird way. There are no gods (unless you count [[Olympus Mons|The Ultimates]]), mainly because the creator, [[Word of God|who said it himself]] is an "agnostic science nut". However, there are [[Our Demons Are Different|the equivalents to demons]] The Devilbirds, birds charged in the egg with negative psychic energy to cause and feed off of negative emotions. But, there are no angel equivalents. There [http://browse.deviantart.com/?q=Necromon&order=9&offset=48#/d4p0bm were] [http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=§ion=&q=Necromon+Celestials#/d7psvh once] when Mortasheen was still called Necromon, but the creator couldn't come up with any re-designs for them that he liked, so he scrapped them.

** It has been hinted that the Eldar are slowly bringing about the birth of a new god which may be able to destroy Chaos (although it has been suggested that the birth of this god would require the death of every last Eldar). As for humanity, every positive emotion which could lead to the creation of a benevolent Warp entity is focused squarely on the Emperor, whose dying physical body is hooked up to an enormous life support machine. It's implied that if the Emperor were ever allowed to die, he would ascend to true godhood and be able to fight Chaos directly. Unfortunately, the loss of the Emperor from the physical world would be an unsustainable disaster for the Imperium.

** Tharizdun ''may'' be the most utterly evil of Greyhawk's god, but he is far from the strongest- in the first three editions of the game, he was ranked as an [[Power Levels|intermediate deity]], and his imprisonment barred him from affecting the world more than a weak demigod.

*** In [[Word of God|Gary Gygax's Gord novels]], Tharizdun once freed is a nigh-omnipotent being who can easily force all the demon princes, archfiends, and other rulers of the Lower Planes to serve him.

** In the ''[[New World of Darkness]]'', there are demons that can be summoned and bound and which can [[Deal with the Devil|make deals with mortals]], and the books are very clear that where they come from ''is'' [[Hell]]. But there's no clear evidence of any benevolent deity in the driver's seat—the [[Vampire: The Requiem|Lancea Sanctum]] only ''claims'' they got their [[Blood Magic]] from angels, the gods in the [[Mage: The Awakening|Oneiros]] are just [[Clap Your Hands If You Believe|reflections of mortal belief]], and the [[Promethean: The Created|qashmallim]] are ''far'' from benevolent, fluffy-winged cherubs.

 

* ''[[Doom (series)|Doom]]'' has this trope. It seems the only force of Good in the Doom-verse is our Berserker Packin' man-and-a-half, the Space Marine/Taggert, and his trusty shotgun (and [[Chainsaw Good|chainsaw]]), taking on the forces of Hell. There's not even a holy weapon around, unless you count the Soul-Cube used by the Martians against the Hellions.

* ''[[Grandia II]]'''s big twist is that {{spoiler|Granas, the God of Light, was killed at the hands of Valmar, the Devil of Darkness}}.

* Played with in ''[[Dragon Quest VII]]''. The final battle between God and the Demon Lord ended with both MIA, but most of the world was still sealed away by evil, so that only a single island remains intact when the game begins. As you progress, the question of whether or not the Demon Lord ''won'' is repeatedly raised. Oh, sure, it looks like God [[Crazy Prepared|planned for this]] by setting up a ritual to reawaken him... {{spoiler|But when the ritual's performed, the 'God' who's summoned [[God Is Evil|ain't the nicest]] [[Fake King|guy around]].}} Then post game {{spoiler|where you do find the real God, it turns out he decided to let humanity sort out the Demon Lord and restore the sealed world themselves while he just watched.}} Even more telling is that {{spoiler|When you call him on it he proves both stronger then the Demon Lord and able to drop in on the DL's throne room at will.}}

* Prevalent in ''[[The Elder Scrolls]]'' series, with the supposed conflict between (the adherents of) The Nine Divines and the Daedra Lords. The Daedra Lords, while not universally evil (some are, in fact, quite decent people, and all tend to hold up their end of a bargain), tend to be amoral, unpredictable, sadistic and, on occasion, prone to attempting world conquest. They are universally reviled as 'evil', and their worshipers are considered misguided at best, and dangerous lunatics at worst. They ''are'', however, very much present in the world. They speak directly to their worshipers, sometimes even appearing in a physical form, and are perfectly willing to offer immediate, tangible rewards for those that choose to do their work. The Nine, on the other hand, do very little, apart from their altars supposedly granting blessings and healing diseases, which any semi-competent spellcaster could pull ''that'' off. The main time the Divines intervene is during the Knights Of The Nine, when {{spoiler|the prophet of the Nine gives you a new ability, which he says comes from the god Talos, and will allow you to kill the Big Bad of the game's arc [[Deader Than Dead|in the dimension he goes to get a new body.]] After the battle, you die too, only to come back after a few days. The only explanation anyone can offer is that the divines brought you back.}} You are the only one to directly benefit from divine interventions in game, apart from a major intervention in a spoiler below.

* There ''was'' a God in ''[[Tears to Tiara]]''. But not anymore, and the only people who ever met the guy have no idea where he's been for the rest of existence. {{spoiler|It's actually a bit of an inversion, however. There is no God, but the Satanic figure is his former underlings the Twelve Angels. Satan himself is a pretty decent fellow here and refuses to be worshiped as a God, as that removes humanity's responsibility and will from its own hands. The angels though...}}

* In ''[[Dwarf Fortress]]'', the various gods civilizations worship have no effect on the world beyond temples being built in the honor and very rarely, holy wars in their name. Demons are actively involved in the world, taking over human and goblin civilizations by posing as the aforementioned dead gods and beating their way to the top, respectively. {{spoiler|More show up if you've [[Dug Too Deep]]}}.

** A strong Dwarven fortress is quite capable of [[Did You Just Punch Out Cthulhu?|demonstrating the mortality]] of these Demons. Gods they very clearly ain't.

** In the current version, gods have a slightly bigger presence in the world. {{spoiler|They create the rock slabs that teach necromancers about the secrets of life and death, and they curse those who profane their temples with vampirism or were-curses.}}

** It has likewise been speculated that the Maker could be an unusually powerful benign Fade spirit (they exist, but since they don't try to possess people by force, they are rarely seen, unlike demons) - or a Pride Demon.

** Regardless of whether or not God (the Maker) exists, the religion's particular belief is that the Maker turned his back on humanity, first for daring to try to reach his city deep within the Fade ([[Nice Job Breaking It, Hero|which turned the Golden City into the Black City]], [[Crapsack World|unleashed the Archdemons and the Darkspawn]], [[Gotterdamerung|and caused the collapse of the powerful Tevinter Empire]]), and then for subsequently murdering his bride (the prophet Andraste, who had quite literally ''just'' convinced the Maker that people were worth saving when she was ''burned at the stake''). Suffice to say, if there ''is'' a God, humans really went out of their way to piss him off. The church believes that spreading the Chant and defeating the Archdemons will allow humans to redeem themselves in the Maker's eyes.

* ''[[Fear Effect]]'': The games make it clear that there is a Chinese version of hell and a Chinese version of the Devil called The King Of Hell. However, there seems to be no heaven or God - unless the island where the Eight Immortals (who don't seem to do much of anything) live at counts.

* Averted in the ''[[Warcraft]]'' universe which does feature benevolent gods, including some who directly help the player at times. Interestingly, the game's most widespread "good" religion, The Light, is arguably more like Buddhism in that it has nothing to do with worship or deities and more to do with philosophy and introspection.

 

 

* ''[[Futurama]]'' has a robot version of this. The robots make many references to Robot Hell (the Robot Devil is even a recurring character), whereas Robot Heaven only gets one sentence, and afterward is never mentioned again.

** Robot Jesus is also mentioned. Jewish Robots believe that He existed and that He was a very well-made robot, but He wasn't their Messiah.

** Of course, God and Satan are on rather good speaking terms, and, despite all the fire and brimstone, hell is actually a pretty civil place. God and heaven aren't at all absent, they're just not as interesting.

 

* In ''Touching the Void'', Joe Simpson falls a hundred or so feet into a deep, dark ice cave (with an already badly broken leg), separating him from his climbing partner. Simpson makes an explicit point that even when [[Despair Event Horizon|all seemed lost]], [[What You Are in the Dark|he remained an atheist]] and did not consider asking God for help. Later, though, he speculates about a powerful "malign presence" that seems to be "teasing" him and might kill him off.

 

{{reflist}}

[[Category:Religion Tropes]]

[[Category:Speculative Fiction Tropes]]

[[Category:Villains]]