Goblins/Headscratchers


 * The fact that every single human, pretty much without fail, is portrayed as being the scum of the earth and horrendously cruel, while every single "monster" race is all sweetness and light really bugs me. For one, that's just Always Chaotic Evil the other way around, for two, we get it already, Humans Are Bastards and monsters are good, and for three, it's boring. I want more moral ambiguity in my races.
 * Most of the city's humans are described as explicitly non-evil by a character with the power Detect Evil (apparently it smells like cheese). Those outside the city seem fairly 'meh' about it, frightened by non-human races who are so neurologically and physiologically different that trade would be impossible and have large violent factions, rather than intended to kill them for the Evulz. Adventurers and the elite guards of the city are horrendously cruel scum of the earth, but since their job description is to kill non-humans in horrible and messy ways (or they'd not be working as random-goblin-slaughtering adventurers or as guards in a dungeon with duty A being to torture the monster races). Nor are monster races all sweetness and light -- see the people who have Dies Horribly, for example, who are monster races and rather intent on genocidal world domination. Or the yellow creeper thing. Or the lizard-ogre-guy. Or the fortune teller. I think the demons can be safely put under "not-nice-guys", either.
 * This troper also thinks that a bit more ambiguity would be in order, especially concerning humans. We'll see. In two years time, maybe.
 * Also there is a different between telling something and showing it, I want to see a good human not be told "oh there a few good ones" once
 * Am I the only one that noticed the spider-thing during the big Brassmoon fight selfishly mind-controlling anyone strong enough to hurt it into attacking one of its allies instead? And I don't think the soul-rending demon summoned by the shield was very pleasant either. The reason most of the monsters in that dungeon are helping the good guys is because they have a common cause, not because they're good guys.
 * Drider. And can we even say most of the monster races are good? Aside from the protagonists (Y'know, the good guys) and two of the PC's (One good, one... chaotic stupid) EVERYONE in this world is a jerk. Even the guy who traded with the goblin camp was peddling junk most of the time, whether or not he adopted the kid.
 * I've got money on the "snake girl" being a former party member with the ranger and fighter, who was kept as a slave for whatever twisted reason. As (former) humans go, she seems nice enough after switching sides. Albeit, she can't pass for human any longer, much less in Brassmoon with her reputation as a "pet".
 * Yuan-ti aren't formerly human; they're a completely different race (albeit of human descent). Kin was most likely born the way she is now.
 * Well, Forgath and Minmax are mostly good. Forgath for obvious reasons, and Minmax because he really does just want to save the world and kill evil monsters-he's just not smart enough to consider the ethical implications of Fantastic Racism.
 * You realize these are humans in a goblin-centered comic, right? If the roles were reversed, and it was the goblins and monsters who were pure evil, with a few good ones sprinkled here and there (as is the norm), no one would bat an eye.
 * The problem isn't just that the comic uses this trope. It's that it's deconstructing it, yet playing it straight at the same time. If they just made humans evil, we wouldn't complain. It's that they're showing the problems caused by assuming every member of a race is chaotic evil, and then still having the enemy race be chaotic evil.
 * The story is from the goblins perspective. People don't become main characters by being neuteral. They do portray people being nueteral we just don't remember those countless faceless people. That being said the Dwarf though not human was portrayed as good. Ignoring actions done for their own side of the fantastic racism scism are the Goblins portrayed any better than people. Goblins are shown to suffer from fantastic racism too even the main cast. It is enough for the goblins to say that the non-elite guard are just protecting their city the comic doesn't do much more to show the goblins are just protecting their village. The point is creatures on both sides have to learn if fantastic racism is going to end.
 * Do not forget that even the good humans(especially the ones in brassmoon city)have been told,since birth that monsters are evil.It is possible that many of the faceless people you call scum(the ones big ears detects as good or neutral,and the goblins would go out of their way not to kill)just do not believe they are doing anything evil and would react otherwise in a situation like,say,being forced to meet,talk and understand the species they call monsters(see Minmax).Most people ,even good ones,just believe what they are hearing since their birth.Yes,Kore,Delvyn and the elite guards are a real kind of evil,but the other people just do not have any proof that monsters can be pottentially good.


 * Why hasn't Kore demonstrated a paladin power? For someone who inexplicably keeps his paladin powers against the logic of the universe, he sure doesn't seem to use them, at all. He doesn't seem to have a paladin mount (since he walks everywhere), he doesn't seem to have Detect Evil, he doesn't seem to Smite Evil, and when he's pulling crossbow shafts out of himself, he doesn't seem to use any Lay On Hands to heal himself. I wouldn't be making the claim that he was a Fallen Paladin if he showed some evidence he retained his powers.
 * I believe that might be the point. They question how a paladin could commit such objectively evil acts and still remain a paladin. Maybe he isn't? Maybe his powers have been axed and he continues on his crusade, either oblivious or convinced it's for some other reason.
 * If he isn't a paladin anymore, then why Ears' axe cannot hurt him?
 * And no, the Speak With Dead effect does not count. Speak with Dead is neither a paladin spell nor has a material component (claim "custom Paladins" if you want, I want to see specifics)
 * Well, he might instead be a cleric of a neutral deity who simply acts Lawful Stupid enough to be confused for a pally.
 * My guess, he was never one in the first place, however a Lawful Evil (thanks to 4th ed) Paladin order is just using him when they want something dead
 * He has recently used Lay on Hands. Now to figure out how the hell he still has his powers, considering he commits murder. Hopefully Thunt gives some sort of explanation for this, unless torture and murder are not evil acts in his world. Which could be considered to be worse than Minmax sprouting wings, breathing fire, and suddenly speaking Druidic.
 * Perhaps he's a Paladin (title), and some prestige class that has Lay On Hands etc., rather than being a Paladin (class). Miko Miyazaki of Order of the Stick is a Samurai (title) Monk 3/Paladin 12+(class).
 * Possibly Kore isn't just a paladin, but a paladin who's been taken over by some implacable, merciless, genocidal force. It's not that he's committing evil acts and keeping his powers; it's that the force is committing evil acts, using his body and abilities, paladin powers included, to carry them out. If he's dominated by something else, then his deeds genuinely aren't his fault and his deity may not consider them grounds for a fall. In effect, Kore-the-true-paladin might be a glove puppet and human (well, dwarven) shield for Kore-the-slaughtering-menace.
 * I am suddenly reminded of Sir Zeliek from World of Warcraft who has EXACTLY this as his shtick.
 * He could also have taken the "Grey knight" Prestige Class from "Heroes of Horror". As long as he's able to keep justifying his actions to the Dungeon Master, he'd be allowed to keep all his paladin powers.
 * The fortuneteller called him "cursed"; it's possibly that he is under some sort of imperative which overrules free will and thus may avoid any negative penalties for actions contraries to Paladin principles.


 * How the hell did Goblinslayer cast magic fang on a sword? That spell only targets animals. Does his graft count as an animal companion or something?
 * Magic Fang can be used on any natural weapon, regardless the target's type. And since both of the Goblinslayer's weapons were grown from his plant-half, I'm guessing that means they count as natural weapons, and not manufactured ones.
 * In fact Thunt at one point specificly points out that GS's wooden sword is a natural weapon...


 * I know a lot of people disagree, but am I the only one put off by the Cerebus Syndrome in the second most recent arc? For the most part, the comic did a good job of balancing comedy and drama, but that big story arc really rubbed it in. I get it, it's a role-reversal, but there's only so long I can tolerate a bunch of sadistic, bigoted bastards being hacked to bits by our howling protagonists. Fortunately, I think the writer realized what they were doing, and the current arc is definitely a breath of fresh air.


 * Remember those two guards who almost caught Ears in the pipe? Ears said they were evil, despite them giving the impression of PunchClockVillains. That bugs me.


 * WHY DIDN'T THACO KILL DALLYN WHEN HE HAD THE CHANCE?!?! WHYYYYYYYYYYY?!?!
 * It wasn't about honor, it was about making him suffer.
 * Did you read the blasted comic!? "I didn't kill Dellyn. I destroyed him." Dellyn saw Thaco as a rival, and would go down in history as the slayer of Thaco the Goblin. Now, he has to live with the fact that he was taken down by a 2nd-level Goblin Monk. Or not, since Kin killed him.


 * Why doesn't the comic obey consistent internal rules? It described itself as following the D&D system, similar to Order of the Stick, but Thaco (Who at this point is a level 1 warrior with generic NPC stats) is able to go toe-to-toe with Minimax (A quote-brokenly twinked-unquote fighter) without being instantly killed. Even counting his magic gear, if Minimax was half-decently built he'd have skewered Nameless Goblin #027 instantly. There's also a few more examples similar to that, wherin level 0 NPCs go toe-to-toe with actual PC-strength characters and live for more than one combat round, for reasons that would make perfect sense in real life but none in a world that follows D&D stats like this one.
 * Maybe Plot Armor exists as unseen, unquantified modifiers to stats; so they only think they're level 1 while having much higher stats.
 * D&D characters really do miss very often, especially at low levels where armor is most significant. If Minmax's awesome starting stats gave him a total of +10 on his attacks (which is very high for a 1st-level character), he would still miss a standard goblin 1/5 of the time. Even that's in a stand-up fight where the goblins aren't using terrain or cover.
 * I've seen something like this myself. Level 1 half dragon raging barbarian charged at spear wielding goblin with no magical equipment nor cover, missed and DM rolled critical of 3x1d6+1 getting 6 on damage and dealing 21 damage total. It's worth mentioning that 1st level half dragon barbarian while raging has STR of 28 gving him +12 to attack. It didn't took many more encounters when our Half-Fiend fighter got the same treatment when fighting under Darkness SLA effect (this time it was bugbear with longsword making 20 damage in one crit). Note that no magical equipment was being used by monsters in that case.
 * A typical monster manual goblin would be tougher than a typical human peasant right? That is the base they've stacked their adventurer levels on top of. Expect them to be tougher for it. Probably their total level is quite a bit higher than their adventurer level.
 * The typical monster manual goblin is a warrior in a warcamp, defending his village; same as our heroes at the beginning of the story. Their equal would be a human city guardsman. And those could eat peasants for breakfast. And, while we're at it, a housecat could defeat a standatd Human Commoner. Point is, the Goblin template isn't stronger than the Human one, and especially not better than other LA 0 races (Elf, Dwarf, etc.)


 * During the attack on the warcamp, why does Thaco sit in the hut taunting the elf when he's quite obviously needed out in the battle?
 * Because he's an elderly goblin explicitly barred from combat by Chief.
 * Thaco doesn't seem like the sort of person to sit by while his friends and family are brutally murdered, just because he was told not to fight.


 * What's the problem with Dies Horribly's name? If it was "Dies Young" I could see the problem. Everyone is going to die. His death will be more painful, but the bad part about dying is not being alive anymore. He's not significantly worse off than anyone else.
 * That may be true, but it is not what he thinks.
 * Why doesn't anyone else realize it and point it out to him?
 * Come to think of it, Saves A Fox mentioned a lot of stuff about the prophesy that isn't part of her name, so it's feasible that Young And Beautiful mentioned he'd die young afterwards. Though that leads to the question of why she didn't tell him a few more details.
 * Probably the fact that right now, he is in very real danger of dying. Though unless the goblins have a written alphabet, it could turn out he is very, very bad at coloring T-shirts...
 * The name comes from the vision a fortune teller from his future. I'm pretty sure if there were t-shirts involved, he would know.
 * "Horribly" is subjective. As dying is already a horrible thing on itself, it's due to interpreter that his dead will be so horrible and tragic to earn him the name. Actually, in his shoes, I would charge in any mundane-looking battle, as dying in battle is not specifically bad for goblins. Ancient temples and cursed lands, instead, are a no-no.
 * Considering the comic he is in, I am willing to bet that any death worthy of the adjective "horribly" involves prolonged and agonizing torture.
 * So does he. Which means it will probably be of extreme old age, after 40 winters of waiting for it and 10 winters of advancing decrepitude as he passes the normal lifespan. Which is pretty horrible, when you think of it.
 * Name gets played straight as of the most recent update.
 * This leaves the question of whether the prophecy is now fulfilled and he no longer has to worry.


 * Why is the Goblin Adventuring Party so goddamned lucky? Characters are touted as high and mighty and then...defeated in solo combat. They keep getting such broken items. All tension is thus lost and the action scenes, which feel long due to the pacing, are all the more painful, as the conclusions are foregone. It feels like Thunt panned out the entire story, realized just how much of the events rely on the laws of dramatic probability and thus stuck in Thaco and Chief's lecture on luck so no one has to worry why the unlikely events of the story are never addressed. To elaborate, my favorite action scenes (besides Kore's first slaughter) are the "PCs" versus the goblins and the "PCs" versus Dellyn. Both are good because they involved clever teamwork rather than Mary Sues rolling 20s against the unluckiest and most overhyped racists ever. The former is also good because the good guys are largely the losers in the fight (yes, the PCs lose 3 out of 5 people, but 2 of them died off comically so I let those pass), and it gave the impression that this could be a work where the tension will always be high and you won't always know the outcome. As I am writing this,, so hopefully I am proven completely wrong. However, I also fear that the threat of Kore will be greatly reduced after this in case the "real" danger is supposed to be the White Terror or someone else.
 * Chief  So far, your fears are averted. Although this does lead to another headscratcher: in one panel, he says he took a crit that shattered his spine-can't walk or stand. Then he goes right ahead and does both. So what, did he just make that up so he could have his grand sacrifice exit?
 * Not so much so that he could have a "grand sacrifice exit," but so that the others would be willing to leave him behind. If they thought he might be able to continue, they would have stayed behind to help him and (probably) gotten killed themselves.

Kore's crossbows, and associate Fan Dumb
 * Those crossbows can't exists, for so much reasons that it would require a dedicated page. The only possible explaining out of magical items is that Kore is titan-level strong, enough to force down sixteen crossbows in a casual movement, and that there is a trully amazing engineering behind the recharge gizmo. Given that, metal dards so short, heavy and with no fletching are useful only at very short range, but that would be OK, as Kore uses them like shotguns.
 * This is a D&D World. Your complaints about items become irrelevant once I say the word "Homebrew."
 * Why WOULDN'T they be magical items anyways? Kore is freakishly high level and it's more than likely that he would have magical items. The dards are probably self-regenerating. However, it is still perfectly possible that Kore may be titan-level strong.
 * Apparently, every magical items in Goblins world has a magic aura of some sort, expecially when in use, and/or is of remarkable appareance. Kore's crossbows looks quite mundane, so I doubt them to be magical. And probably Kore is not titan strengh level, else he would not need keys to open a door, just a kick.
 * Just a note: Kin once obtained a magical crossbow with a magical quiver (the crossbow is range enhanced, while the quiver recharges its bolts). Both of them looks quite mundane to me...
 * My guess is that there's no trick. He simply slowly incorporated more and more equipment into his armament as he leveled up and grew stronger until it ended up like this. Are you saying no to those crossbows but not a head-to-toe suit of plate mail and a thick metal shield big enough that he can fully hide behind it from a standing posture, and a system to flip it in front of and behind him? Dnd may not be good about this little detail but that is mostly well-distributed weight, so it's not as if he's hauling 200 pounds of equipment in a backpack. And I do not get the impression that he moves very fast; to me Kore looks like an Advancing Boss of Doom who is only able to attack at a reasonable rate because he's primarily using spring-loaded weapons with a mechanical autoloader of some kind. If not for his ranged weaponry and lack of cover the entire goblin party could have EASILY outrun him, if not for having nowhere to run I bet half the orcs could have gotten away if they'd tried, and he's yet to move at more than a slow walking pace on camera (well, he got motion lines after Ears threw the axe but that's ambiguous). Hell, he mostly STANDS STILL during combat, turning as appropriate.
 * No one ever complained about Kore movement or agility, and the shield wall was just ignored because the argument is specifically about the crossbows. Problem is, the amount of strengh needed to recharge them requires either impressive stats that Kore never displayed; or a spring mechanism that is clearly not there; or magic, but the crossbows and the recharge gizmo looks mundane. Hence the headscratcher.


 * The "hero" Goblins considered all adventurers as horrendous, souless monsters who kills and loot for Exp and levels. Then the Goblins themselves decide they had enough of that, so they decide to become adventurers... and they start doing the same thing they claimed to hate, but they justify themselves by saying it's OK. What the hell, guys? It gets lampshaded a few times during the comic and both good and bad people agree they are the worst, unnatural scum ever.
 * The goblins being called a perversion or unnatural by others have nothing to do with how they act, but from the simple fact that they took character classes, which is more along the way of going against every traditions, or what is widely considered the natural order of things. There's lots of hypocrisy in this position too.
 * Also, the goblins justify themselves by saying those classes and levels are used to protect their kind from adventurers. Basically, they're choosing to fight fire with fire.
 * Besides, so far they've only killed a bunch of undead orks and evil sadistic wretches from the Elite Guard. They went to lenghts to avoid civilian casualties. What else do you need?


 * I can't be the only one who wonders why Dellyn didn't just get Saral Caine resurrected, instead of acting like his death was totally irreversible. I mean, he probably has the funds to afford a Raise Dead or Resurrection, and a cleric with one of those spells shouldn't be too hard to find. Is resurrection impossible in the world this comic takes place in?
 * I don't think it's impossible so much as high level clerics are hard to come by. Have we actually seen any 9th level clerics?
 * No, I don't think we have. Still, they probably exist somewhere.
 * Considering that the entire city was very, very pissed at him, I think it's likely that any clerics in the city were forbidden from helping him.
 * Also, given that Thunt has said that the Goblins universe has it's own rules, and resurrection spells have never been brought up before, it could be they don't exist in this setting.


 * About the current story arc with Dies Horribly: why doesn't K'Seliss just cut off his hands? If biting off a finger is a way of casual greeting among his people, surely amputation would be a much more viable alternative than trying to suffer through whatever is happening to his hands?
 * Because, really, this is the ultimate crapsack world and the author is prone to torturing his characters just for the sake of proving how nasty this world is. It's just K'Seliss's turn on the wheel of torture, that's all. Sit back and enjoy his suffering. After all, this is the comic where alternate universe characters are being repeatedly tortured and killed in an endless loop like some unholy combination of Groundhog Day and Saw. So either giggle at their suffering and wait for the next nasty bit of turture to be inflicted on your favorite character, or it's not the comic for you.
 * In a less bitter tone, perhaps, there are possibly several reasons. First, K'Seliss doesn't have any kind of bladed weapon, and Grem's sword is too short to cut through K'Seliss's wrists. Second, it's kind of hard to cut off your melting hands when ...your hands are melting. Third, it's unknown what kind of regenerative power K'Seliss has (presumably some version of regeneration, or else his race wouldn't have incorporated cannibalism into their social greetings), so he might think it's worth it to try and salvage his hands rather than to lose them and attempt to regrow them.
 * Real lizards can only regenerate tails, and I'm pretty sure many species of lizard can't even do that (I think some species might be able to do claws, but mostly it's tails). Lizardfolk might be a bit better off with, y'know, being in a world with magic, but K'seliss explicitly stated that he can't do whole limbs. So he was kinda screwed from the start.
 * And lastly...as for why the characters suffer so badly, they're D&D characters in a world with a Killer Game Master. Plus, y'know, Conflict.
 * Also, would you kindly remember that THERE IS A HUGE FREAKING MONSTER CHASING THEM. And besides, there's an itsy-bitsy difference between biting off a finger and cutting off both arms. In the first case you just squeeze the stump. In the second, well, you most likely bleed to death.


 * How can Fumbles be in every class at once? Paladins and monks both must be Lawful, while barbarians and bards aren't allowed to be Lawful. Also, paladins must be Lawful Good, while druids must be Neutral on at least one side.
 * He's 2/11 of each class, ergo all the requirements are 11/2 times slacker. Of course, should he ever reach level 11, than it will get interesting. Probably he'd be torn apart by the conflicting alignments.
 * Your arguement would be viable if he were the only curiousity in the Thuntverse; but right now we have a cleric worshipping the Game Master, another cleric worshipping a Chaotic Evil god while being neither Chaotic nor Evil himself, an obviously Evil Paladin, and Minmax. The Game Master(s) of this campaign obviously play along with anything the players throw at them. OTOH, the world doesn't pull any punches, either.
 * Another possibility is that Fumbles isn't a PC at all. The only thing he pulled that required a class level was his 1/11th Sleep spell, but even that didn't have the trademark IME effect. For him it's just make-believe, even though it worked for the rest of the GAP.

Minmax nakedness
 * Minmax is barely dressed, to the point that he should be considered armour-less. Now, in D&D and most fantasy RPGs, no armour is the worst condition ever, barred special skills or classes, none of which seems to apply to Minmax. Maybe he gave up the ability to make bowel movements in full daylight for a +2 AC when armour-less? Minmaxing-wise, even a simple leather mail is an inprovement in defence with almost zero drawbacks. I doubt Minmax trade in the ability to ever wear armouts, as it would prevent him to wear magical ones in the future, the second most wanted item for a fighter class.
 * I've been wondering about this myself, especially since most of the characters we see don't wear much in the way of armour, and thus should be being hit far more often than the story shows. Therefore, I've come to the conclusion that in this homebrew setting, you can use various ability modifiers to increase your AC, as long as you can justify it, and/or, armour is simply very rare.
 * Since all armor imposes a limit on the maximum dexterity bonus that can be added to AC, maybe Minmax's Dexterity score is high enough that wearing any armor at all and capping his bonus is always a drawback.
 * As of right now, this argument is moot: Minmax is currently getting dressed (he traded his ability to dress himself?!??)
 * Kin dressed him.