Captain America: The First Avenger/Fridge

Fridge Logic:
Doing the scene the way you want it would be like having James Bond go through the usual routine of Q showing him all the neat gadgets, only Bond goes, "Eh, no thanks. I'll just use my gun." and walking off without so much as a single exploding cigar. Also, think of Stark's (both generations) mindset: Gadgets and toys are cool and the way to go. Stark waved off the vibranium shield because it was just a shield, while the others had all kinds of neat gizmos attached that Stark thought would be useful. Stark is the kind of guy who, when building a shield, immediately thinks, "Okay, but it needs to shoot stuff too."
 * Why didn't the screenwriters have Rogers ask Stark why the vibranium-shield was the only circular shield in the room? All the other shields' shapes were strange, but clearly Medieval-inspired, and then we see a shield shaped like a perfect circle? The screenwriters should've realized that was going to raise some questions from the audience.
 * On top of that, the shield sticks out like a sore thumb, but Steve instantly treats it like it's the most worthy of his possession. Why was Steve so interested in a plain-looking circular shield instead of the other ones that were specifically designed for combat? One again, the screenwriters should've realized that was going to raise some questions from the audience.
 * Because...it's really not that big a deal? The shield gets all the exposition it needs. "What's this?" "Oh, that's a prototype made from an indestructible metal. That's actually all of that metal we have, so none of these other shields have it." "Oh, hey, it completely and perfectly blocks bullets." Would the movie really have been improved by a bunch of discussion about it?
 * It's a mild-level "deal" because it makes Steve's reaction come off as unnatural and contrived. If he had actually listened to what Stark was telling him about the others, then noticed the circular one and asked "oh, what about this one?" it would've seemed pretty normal. But he basically ignores all the rest and latches onto just one for no apparent reason.
 * He saw the shield and liked it. Seriously, what would the movie have benefited by having Steve listen to Stark explain a bunch of shields that we all know he isn't going to use? The scene illustrates the difference between Steve and Stark. Steve goes for simple utility, Stark goes for a bunch of gadgets and gizmos.
 * The REAL question is if they made the Vibranium shield, why did they decide to give him the option for other shields?! When Rogers first notices it, Howard actually tries to dissuade him from picking it! Exactly why did they make the most useful shield there, out of the only sample of an ultra-rare mineral on the planet, if they never intended him to actually use the damn thing?!
 * He said it's a prototype. What do you do with prototypes? You test them and then improve on them. Stark tried to dissuade Rogers from taking it because he wasn't done playing around with it yet, while the other shields were more or less ready for deployment.
 * During the montage with the Howling Commandos, why was it necessary to stick the bomb underneath the tank. If all they wanted to do was destroy the tank, then why not just stick it to the side? That way, there's no risk of being squashed or hit by something sticking out from the underside.
 * Tanks are less well armored on the bottom.
 * Also Artistic License-Economics: HYDRA has betrayed the Reich and fights the Allies, this meaning they are practically fighting against the entire world, but their bases and factories are in the Reich-dominated Europe. How do they supply them with money (they never seem to have any legit businesses running), raw materials, rail and road transport, construction crews?
 * It could be that HYDRA stole some funds from the Nazis, and by this point Schmidt could just disguise his purchases as anti-Nazi resistances.
 * And/or just plain stole resources from whoever had them. With an army of fanatically loyal soldiers armed with supertech, its not like most forces could keep Hydra from just hijacking shipments of minerals and chemicals.
 * Then again, once you start wondering about economics in the Marvel Universe, it brings up questions about how any organization can afford all their Technology Porn.
 * If Cap had his shield on him when he got frozen in ice (as evidenced by the beginning of the movie), what was Tony Stark using to prop up his machine in Iron Man II?
 * Probably some kind of prototypical attempt to recreate it in some fashion.

Fridge Brilliance:

 * When Armin Zola, the scientist, visits Johann Schmidt, you never see Johann's face. An artist is painting a portrait of him, and his palette consists mostly of chunky, deep red paint. The artist also looks visibly disturbed. Makes sense about halfway through the movie, when
 * The Arc Reactor. It's mildly foreshadowed by the sounds--the Tesseract-powered weapons have the same "warm-up" sounds as the Repulsors in the movie, then, with the ending of Howard Stark finding the Tesseract, it's made clear. But then you remember; the Arc Reactor in Iron Man was huge! Why? Because it's powered by a natural artifact. Howard Stark never tried to make one artificially, but if he had, he would have found out it was possible to miniaturize. -- Leonardo Fibonacci
 * So the flying car was running on repulsors! --Jonn
 * I had the exact same line of thought, but the reactor at Stark Industries wasn't running on the Cosmic Cube. Both Tony and Ivan had to rely on palladium, which as indicated by Fury, is only a stand-in (likely until Howard could fully replicate the Cube's elemental makeup); Ivan couldn't have built his reactor if the key component was an Asgardian artifact, and no box of scraps could have saved Tony in Afghanistan were that the case. And Skull's disintegrated by a beam of light opening up the Yggdrasil; note how Iron Monger didn't meet a similar fate. - Almighty Smiley
 * Though we did see a similar 'beam of light' shooting into the sky.
 * But not one that, as far as the audience could see, opened a dimensional portal. Hence the necessity of the Cube material; with palladium, as said on Iron Man's Fridge Logic page, it's just a bigger version of the chest blast.
 * Except that what Tony rediscovers is vibranium, not the Cosmic Cube.
 * Tony's replacement core glowed with the same effect as the Cube. Howard's experimentation revealed that even a fraction of the Cube held a huge amount of energy, which is sort of the Arc Reactor's main selling point. Vibranium, as far as the films go, is just a pretty good metal for shielding purposes. Also, it doesn't glow.
 * In Thor, we are told that magic is more or less sufficiently advanced technology. The arc reactor (60s tech) and Tony Stark's miniaturised version (2010s tech) are inspired by the Cosmic Cube but built from first principles, rather than containing elements of it. They are current humanity's early approaches to technology of a level enjoyed by Asgard.
 * The Red Skull doesn't seem the type to take prisoners. This is probably why the army didn't want to mount a rescue mission - they didn't know that Skull was using the captured soldiers as labor instead of just killing most of them right away.
 * I thought they were making plans for one, but Steve couldn't be a part of it.
 * IIRC, the Colonel's objection to a rescue mission was trying to get to a facility that far behind enemy lines would end up killing more men than it rescued.
 * Which makes perfect sense: The base is in Austria. They're in Italy, and based on the war's timeline, have been for at least a couple of years, as it was a big stalemate. There would be no way to send a squad of soldiers that deep into enemy territory and get them out again. Cap's mission is essentially a suicide mission; that he survives and succeeds is what earns him his reputation.
 * Dr. Erskine says that the serum 'takes the good, and makes it great, and takes the bad and makes it worse' (paraphrasing). Once put into Steve Rogers, it made Captain America. Put into Johann Schmidt, it made Red Skull. 60 years later, a reverse-engineered version was put into Emil Blonsky... and made the Abomination.
 * You forgot the gamma radiated Hulk blood. Bronsky is a fierce mercenary soldier using a reproduction of the Super Soldier Serum. It's incomplete, but did seem to enhance what he was, a fighter/soldier. It gave him seriously advanced healing, agility, speed, and seemed to be adjusting his bones slowly to handle receiving a curb stomp battle. We have to also look at the series of events. Steve Rogers received a full vial of serum into each major muscle and enough vita rays to shut down the power grid, all at the same time. Bronsky received a syringe of "we hope it works" serum, broke every bone in his body, recovered, then received some gamma blood.
 * This ties into the old plot device regarding the gamma radiation where the person's subconscious influenced the outcome. The fact that they were able to tie this in with the Red Skull is pretty ingenious.
 * Also, it acts as a good justification for the Disposable Superhero Maker: They probably replicated Erskine's formula a long time ago, but as it's controlled by General Rippers like Ross instead of Cool Old Guys like Erskine, they only used it on jerks like Blonsky. That means all they've ever produced are Abominations. To get a super soldier the likes of Captain America, The Government would have to use the serum on a Good Man... and if they ever did, they haven't let him walk around.
 * Or it's an incomplete serum and humans rights prevents them from really testing it...until Blonsky demands it, anyway.
 * On the train just before Bucky falls out of the train he picks up the captains shield to protect him self. It seems straightforward enough but when you think about what happens in the comics it gains a whole nother level of brilliance. In the comics, Bucky takes over being Captain America for a while after Steve is thought dead.
 * When Red Skull becomes angry at Steve Rogers' "I'm just a kid from Brooklyn" answer to what makes him so "special" becomes even more obvious when you consider that he was exiled from Hitler's elite circle for not resembling the Aryan ideal anymore. Meanwhile, the Blond, Blue-Eyed Steve Rogers has essentially become the ultimate Aryan. Steve is essentially everything Red Skull wanted to be, and he's on the Allied side.
 * More than that, when Steve Rogers denies there is anything special about him, he implicitly denies there was anything special about *Schmidt*. That is what really angers the guy.
 * Just how empowered is Schmidt if his fist can put a dent in a stage prop?
 * Given that he uses it to deflect bullets and it's made of steel (bronze or brass do not make the ringing sound when hit, but more like a deep-sounding bell, as ancient large bells were made from bronze), yeah, Skull's a badass.
 * The original idea, when the movie was first announced, was for half to be a WWII period piece and half to take place in the present day. So why didn't they do that? Because Thor already gave us a fish-out-of-water story. (Though the lack of a solid civilian cast for Cap post-WWII might have also had something to do with it.) --Wackd
 * Schmidt and Zola were able to use the Tesseract to turn Hydra into an NGO Superpower. Howard Stark salvaged the cube but doesn't do the same? Ohhhh yeahhhh... Because he's not a megalomaniac! The Tesseract could be used to build powerful weapons, and would make building an empire simple via Phlebotinum Dependence - any attempts to turn the technology against them would be futile as the Tesseract is the only way to power it. But powering the world was something else entirely. The Arc Reactor technology he struggled with to his dying day was his attempt to make the technology widespread - turn nuclear warheads into nuclear reactors.
 * It also shows Howard's reasoning in deporting Vanko - Hydra proved that the technology was easily weaponized, but Stark refused to follow in their footsteps and was deeply disgusted by Vanko's attempt to plunge the world into Hydra-style Tesseract-powered warfare. Tony was less successful in protecting the technology from Senator Sterns and Hammer - the assholes only saw Arc Reactor tech as a weapon, never understanding how much havoc Hydra wreaked with it - until Vanko cut loose.
 * It also goes a way towards explaining some of Tony's extreme 'my technology, you no touch' reactions to the arc reactor and the suit, if he had it drilled into his head from early on that anything falling into the realm of 'tesseract stuff' had to be strictly controlled and kept out of government hands.
 * Except Tony's only used the arc reactor tech as a weapon - to power the Iron Man suit. It's not that he thinks it should be used for civilian rather than military purposes, it's that he thinks only he (a frequently irresponsible, impulsive alcoholic) is a safe person to have access to it. Which is more than a tad arrogant.
 * Tony's goal was fulfilled in The Avengers: he's now "kind of the only name in clean energy." The government kept demanding access to it when it still had kinks in it - like poisoning people with palladium. In that state, all it was good for was weapons - things people wouldn't be hanging around. The Government was just like Stane - "You really think that just because you have an idea, it belongs to you?" Nationalized! We don't care about palladium poisoning, we can iron it out in a few decades! Another Three Mile Island would teach those whiny citizens not to waste so much of our energy! Now that he's figured it out, he's testing it on the Stark Tower, and then it's to the market he goes.
 * More like Fridge Figuring Out The Obvious, but this Troper was just thinking how amusing it was that they included all the cheesy Walt Disney shout outs in this movie and in Iron Man 2, with the Expo's and songs by Alan Menken and whatnot...and then I remembered that Marvel is owned by Disney now.
 * Steve doesn't know what fondue is because it wasn't popular until the 50s and 60s. Howard Stark of course knows what it is because he's rich and indulges in all sorts of high brow tastes that the common masses don't know.
 * Also doubles as Fridge Horror, but this troper was originally confused by Bucky repeating his serial number over and over just before Steve rescues him. A quick Google search provided an answer: a soldier is only supposed to give their name, rank, and serial number when being tortured for information. HYDRA must have been torturing Bucky. Poor guy.
 * Actually, it's for all interrogations. To be fair, the Nazis did use torture and didn't give a crap about the Geneva Convention.
 * Even more Nightmare Fuel: what if they were experimenting on him?
 * That's what this troper was thinking they were doing, and almost thought (in the train attack scene) that they had brainwashed Bucky during that torture until he starts shooting at the Hydra guard after closing the door on Steve.
 * This troper got the distinct impression that Bucky actually was being brainwashed (but only on stage one and so not permanently affected). Brainwashing would be a great explanation for how Hydra got so many desposable mooks, if they were taking the most able-bodied prisoners and, rather than putting them on the work crew, wiping their minds and sticking them in uniforms. Not they couldn't have gotten the men another way, but it does neatly explain why they were so plentiful even after Hydra cut ties with the Nazis, and why Red Skull didn't see any potential resource problems with killing them for failure. Adds some Fridge Horror too.
 * The experimentation becomes even more likely given that it would be a perfect explanation how Bucky could survive his fall and come back in a later film.
 * Remember how in Iron Man 2, the shield Tony uses to prop up his particle accelerator is mostly made of plastic with a little bit of metal? Howard Stark says that the Vibranium shield is made out of just about all the vibranium they have; the plastic shield Tony's got is just a stand-in for the real deal.
 * And why did he just stuff it in the particle accelerator? Because it was a failed attempt at replicating the shield, he's probably got a bunch of those all over the place if the one in IM1 is any indication.
 * We finally have a sane, rational justification for the codifier for No Plans, No Prototype, No Backup - Erskine kept all the essential math for the Super Soldier Serum in his head because the Serum "Makes good great and bad worse". He's seen it create the Red Skull. He knows that the Army wants to use it on bullies. He died trying to keep history from repeating itself.
 * Which is kind of Fridge Logic as to why the spy shot him since there is no longer any way to make more serum which seemed like the spy's goal in the first place.
 * No, it makes perfect sense. The spy's already got the last actual sample of the serum in his hand. He shoots Erskine so he can't remake it for the Americans.
 * This leads into a second piece: Why did the spy wait until after the experiment? He had to make sure it worked. If it failed, he just would have sent back a message saying the Allies are still no closer to a proper serum. But since it worked he followed his directions carefully; notice that the only time he actually stands to confront Steve is when he has the child hostage, any other time the spy's either trying to lose him or taking potshots to keep him in cover while extending his lead.
 * Steve grabs a helmet that belongs to one of the dancing girls when he's going off to save Bucky. Just a way to justify his trademark blue helmet with the white A, right? Well...earlier in the movie, we saw how well normal army helmets fit the man. The serum didn't expand his skull: he needs a helmet fitted for someone smaller than the average soldier.
 * His head looks average sized to me, certainly in proportion to his post-procedure body. Pretty sure he did get a larger skull during the procedure.
 * No, his head remained the same size. It's average sized in proportion to his post-procedure body...but very large in proportion to his pre-procedure body. The genius part is that it looks okay both ways.
 * The "Heil HYDRA" salute looks like a doubling up of the Nazi salute, which is sort of cheesy...but their motto is "Cut off one head and two more will take its place." Something doubled-up makes perfect sense.
 * Having the black dude be the one to capture Arnim Zola wasn't just an attempt at giving him one scene of focus - it was twisting the knife in the wound. Nazi or Hydra, they're Aryans after all.
 * This troper's wife pointed out that Sharon Carter had visible bra lines showing through her shirt, which were noticeably absent from Peggy Carter (late 1930s bras had wider straps and looked more like this, which should have set off a few early warning bells about what decade it was. Steve, being who he is, really isn't likely to get that.
 * Take a close look at just where Schmidt picks up the Cosmic Cube: Tønsberg. Which Thor established was the site of a major battle in the Asgardian/Frost Giant War. The few surviving humans would have had first-hand experience just how dangerous the powers Asgardians and their like are dealing in can be to humans, and a great reason to feel indebted to the Asgardians. In other words, the perfect start for an Ancient Tradition guarding a (seemingly, at least) Asgardian relic.
 * The super soldier serum may have made Steve stronger and faster, but he remained Adorkable, with little charisma to speak of. The stage shows he starred in took care of that; he went from needing cue cards taped to the back of his shield, to the charismatic hero figure he was destined to be.
 * Huh? He's only adorkable around women, and even after the USO shows he still awkward. What was it pre-USO that showed him as lacking in charisma?
 * The double date with Bucky where the girl he is going with doesn't pay any attention to him?
 * That would be the "with women" part, and it was pre-Serum. She would not doubt have been all over him post-serum. You speak as if he was distinctly lacking in charisma between getting the serum and becoming a USO celebrity.
 * Bucky's body is never shown, he falls into icy terrain, he's been a lab rat for (possibly) HYDRAs super-serum. Sets it up nicely for Bucky turning up as Winter Solider if Marvel wants to.
 * Prior to the procedure, Erskine has to point out to Peggy that she should be in the observation booth. It's subtle, but an indication that she's already falling for him.
 * Not to mention that during the procedure when Steve starts screaming in pain, Peggy is the first person to shout for them to shut it off.
 * Plus, there's also during the "Grenade!" scene where Peggy is actually the only person running to Steve diving heroically over the grenade, while everyone else ran for cover.
 * Prof. Erskine just happens to be there when Steve talks to Bucky passionately about joining the fight. Kismet? No, he's there at the invitation of Howard Stark, who was presenting at the expo, and nipped over to the recruitment tent because he's always looking for recruits.
 * Steve's sharp memory could be a result of the super-soldier serum.... Or then it might be due to artists often having excellent memory and eye for detail. He may have been asked to emulate another artist's style or reproduce a small picture on a larger scale.
 * Perhaps a small, unintended bit of brilliance. When the Red Skull gets taken into the Bifrost, the effects almost make it look like he is getting burned. In addition, he gets taken away, rather than dying like the rest of HYDRA. In Greek mythology, the only way to keep a hydra's head from regrowing is to burn the stump after cutting the head off. Also, the last head of the hydra is immortal, and most myths state that it is pinned under a boulder to deal with that. Maybe not the exact same thing as transporting it to a different realm, but kind of an interesting connection.
 * A Case of Fridge Horror: Wonder why all of the prisoners in Hydra's work camp are Americans, with a few British and French thrown in, instead of the Polish, Finnish and Swedish soldiers they would've captured first? Consider that Hydra clearly doesn't care about it's slave labor's safety: they just ran out of everyone else.
 * You would be extremely unlikely to find Finns or Swedes outside the Nordic fronts in the first place; the Swedish stayed as neutral as possible, while the Finnish were having their own defensive war in an uncomfortable alliance with Germany. The only ones of either nationality likely to be in the region would have been the few fanatics and andventurers who joined the SS as volunteers.
 * Or like discussed above they might have been brainwashed and added into hydra ranks. Remember we never actually see any of their faces.
 * Fridge Stupidity, really... when Steve Rogers is trying so desperately to get into the army, he is perfectly willing to lie about his real name... and yet includes details that he could have easily omitted from his medical history, such as 'Has had household contact with tuberculosis' and 'Parent/sibling with diabetes'. Admittedly the physical exam would have had him rejected anyway, but telling them these details was just plain stupid.
 * Hey, if anyone's going to be Lawful Good to a fault in the Marvel universe, it's Captain America. One would guess he only lied about his name because otherwise he wouldn't be able to try out at all, and he was determined to get in. But at the same time, he probably wanted to get in despite his infirmities, rather than lying about them.
 * When does he use a false name and what is it?
 * Steve doesn't seem to use false names, but rather false birthplaces (Paramus, New Jersey is listed as one of them, forgot about the others.) other than his real birthplace (Brooklyn, New York).
 * "Steve" and "Rogers" are common enough names that a false birthplace is enough to conceal the fact that he's already been rejected as 4F. He'll lie just enough to get his foot in the door, no more.
 * I had an odd thought upon re-watching the film - Rogers rejects the team Phillips wants to assemble in favor of asking the POWs he rescued to return to the front. Not only did he see them in action and approve of their tenacity, but he would have compared them subconsciously to the men he was at the Project with. Playing that out in my mind gave me this; there was a way besides Cutting the Knot to get that flag off the flagpole - they could have helped each other. Brawny guys like Dugan on the bottom. Mid-sized guys further up, bracing themselves against the flagpole. Rogers, the "ninety-pound asthmatic" determinedly crawling up the pile to retrieve the flag. "Whoever brings me that flag gets a free ride back to base!" No reason it couldn't have been everyone presenting him with the flag, and refusing to abandon the others. Instead they were yanking each other off the flagpole like crabs in an open bucket. THAT is why he wanted those weirdos - they worked together almost instinctively despite not only being from different units, but different countries.
 * Why is Bucky alone in no wearing any special Stark-designed battledress, opting instead for a peacoat, aside from paying homage to the comics? It is because since Brubaker's overhaul of the character, Bucky is the Invaders' point man and scout. He was possibly required often to scout ahead, dressed civilian-ish, to gather intel.
 * The way Cap's Mighty Shield kept on getting its paint job messed up always felt odd to me until I read this review; the shield is itself indestructible, but the paint is just paint - it must be maintained and cared for to show the shield's true glory. So it is with America itself - we are not unsullied and invincible, we screw up and falter and make too many excuses, there is work to be done for us to shine at our best, but underneath the scarring the American Dream is unbowed and unbreakable.
 * The star at the center also doesn't seem to get scratched up, perhaps representing the ideals that's at the heart of every American's desire to live up to that American Dream.
 * Remember the film trailer? The song featured in it was 46 & 2 by Tool. The song is about Man evolving an extra pair of chromosomes and expanding upon human potential.
 * This Tumblr post gives some interesting ideas about the kid shown near the end of the film.