Broken Base/Anime and Manga

No matter what continent they might live in, the most dire enemies for many anime and manga fans are very often other anime and manga fans.


 * Anime as a whole has the Subbing Versus Dubbing debate.
 * The Inuyasha/Kikyo vs. Inuyasha/Kagome and Sesshomaru/Rin vs. Sesshomaru/Kagura in Inuyasha.
 * There's also the "loyal" fans who followed the entire series and still loved it, while there are those that gave up watching it when they believed the series had jumped the shark mid-way through, and there are those that bothered to go through the entire series, only to come out hating the entire series that it makes you wonder WHY they wasted watching all 193 episodes?
 * Don't forget the idiots who read 558 chapters and hate it, too.
 * Is it truly fair to hate on something without experiencing the entire thing?
 * After you get past the Subbing Versus Dubbing debate, Akira then has the debate as to whether the Streamline dub or the Pioneer dub is superior. It all boils down to whether one prefers Liquid Snake or Vash the Stampede screaming "TETSUO!!!!"
 * Several dubs of Ghibli movies have had similarly heated debates: fans in general can't seem to unanimously agree about whether the Streamline dub or the Disney dub of Kiki's Delivery Service, Laputa: Castle in the Sky, My Neighbor Totoro, and Porco Rosso is superior. (All the more dubious because Carl Macek, who helmed the original dubs for Totoro and Kiki, was dissastified with the original dub of Laputa, which was hastily made by an unknown company and picked up by them for distribution.). Likewise with Porco Rosso.) Hey, even some fans think the new version of Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind is worse than the American edit of "Warriors of the Wind".
 * Fans are divided about Fan Service, Moe, and Harem, and similar appealing-but-not-explicit elements. It has been argued that these elements can cheapen the narrative of any show, and attract antisocial fans who only enjoy series because of their Perverse Sexual Lust for fictional characters. Other fans will argue that such elements can not be avoided in order for a series to get a decent budget, and to get attention from fans. A person's opinion may depend on what (if any) types of fanservice, moe, and harem elements they enjoy.
 * There was an awful lot of disagreement over the Digimon seasons after Digimon Adventure. Did 02 suck because it downplayed the original team in favor of the newbies? Did Tamers suck because it was too serious, or because it took place in an Alternate Universe? Did Frontier suck because it moved away from the very concept of Mons? And let's not even get into Savers.
 * On that note, Digimon Xros Wars: Is it Jumping the Shark or returning to Original Flavor of the series? Is the plot good and genuinely unusual or is it slow moving and cliche? The fanbase can't decide.
 * Sailor Moon has many a debate, even to this day. Is Usagi a Mary Sue or not? Is Chibi Usa an annoying Usagi clone or a deep, important addition? Is Rei a complete witch or is she just assertive? Is Mamoru better than Seiya for Usagi, or vice versa? Then there is the whole lesbian thing ...
 * It doesn't help that the series contains a manga, an anime, three anime movies--with dubious relation to the anime--,a live action drama, several musicals--all with semi-unique canons, and it's sister series Codename: Sailor V (which connects directly to the Manga) For example, while Rei is a calm Ojou in the manga, she's a hot-blooded tsundere in the anime. Then there's all the adaptions for other countries, most of which messed with the various canons to fit the morals of the place adapting the manga/anime/etc..
 * Also, if the English dub was a horrible anathema for its censorship, or was generally justified and good on its own merits.
 * Some debates have sprung up on whether or not Code Geass and its Oddly-Named Sequel 2: Electric Boogaloo underwent Plot Tumor, Sequelitis or whatever else applies. The ones detesting the sequel said that many of the above apply, while the pro R2 fans defended the second season and sometimes resorted to calling the dissenters Unpleasable Fanbase, just as the others claimed the supporters clinged to anything related to Code Geass.
 * Amusingly, aside from Ship-to-Ship Combat, the fanbase more or less raged and celebrated as one (see the hate for Suzaku and Rolo, the cheers for Kallen Combo and Orange-kun as examples) up to about R2 15, when more cracks started to appear in the base. When the bomb dropped in R2 19 (which was ironic given the literal one in the previous episode) the fan base instantly exploded. The pieces from this continued to break apart and become more vicious right up to the end and after.
 * Actually, Suzaku is something of a Base Breaker. There are viewers who adore Lelouch and hate Suzaku, viewers who admire Suzaku and hate Lelouch, viewers who respect both, and viewers who hate both. The first group is bigger than the second, but the third seems to be the dominant interpretation of the final episode.
 * Attesting to this base is the fact that the late-R2 entries for the series CMOA and Narm are often one and the same!
 * The Naruto fanbase is this way over Sasuke Uchiha, A.K.A. the most divisive character in existence.
 * And the first paragraph above pretty much perfectly describes the fanbase regarding Part II/Shippuden. probably being the most notable divisions, aside from everything Sasuke has already done.
 * Fullmetal Alchemist fandom when it comes to the manga versus the anime (especially since they differ hugely in latter stages). The recent second anime adaptation isn't helping.
 * Misty's departure in Pokémon pretty much split the fandom into those that won't have anything to do with any episodes past Johto and those that openly embrace the newer episodes. This also led to a massive Flame War over the female characters, which, amazingly, persists to this day. The fact that the girls who came after her, May and Dawn, had some similarities to certain stereotypes of females (hint: the stereotypes in question are what most of the girls in Battle Vixens, especially Sonsaku Hakufu, and the girls from Love Hina are portrayed as), to which the ex-director of the show even admitted in an interview as being one of the reasons for her replacement as well as pretty much every girl's replacement, as well as the fact that Misty's departure was horribly done (They had her stay at the Gym out of obligation because her sisters were out of town and weren't trustworthy anyways, basically forcing her to abandon her goal of becoming a Water Pokemon Master for what is essentially a Humiliation Conga of losing to rookies constantly a la Team Rocket that will most likely make her even weaker than before, and yet Brock gets exempt from this fate despite, as his hoso showed, Pewter Gym suffered much worse? Try to say that isn't completely whack.), and wasn't even foreshadowed well at all (the topic of Misty leaving literally only came up on her final episode, and was never hinted at at all) didn't help matters much, either.
 * The evolution war... Oh, the evolution war... "Should Piplup ever evolve?"
 * Even worse, the Buizel war.
 * Also, some fans weren't too happy with changing Jynx's color, even though it was probably for the best
 * Some parts of the fandom wish for a more mature anime show, while another part believes the show is just fine the way it is. The former usually gets labeled with wanting blood, guts, and sex as mature means just that these days. To be fair, what the former really want is an adaptation of Pokémon Special.
 * Two divides came after Best Wishes started. The people who felt the anime had dropped in quality past its first season enjoy the series for generally feeling like a return to form in pacing and style, while the people who enjoyed the anime and thought that it improved past its first season hate this "step backward". Then there's Team Rocket. Some find their incredible badass upgrade and habit of making only short appearances in episodes (if they even show up at all) to make them much more interesting and worthwhile than they've been in a long time, while others who found them entertaining prior to it are complaining and think that they're boring and worthless now.
 * Don't expect to strike up a discussion about which pair of VAs are better without expecting a full blown flame war with people who argue one of two things: 4Kids' VAs are better and PUSA's suck balls, or vice versa. This got so out of hand that Bulbagarden (one of the two largest communities in the fandom) had to actually BAN Voice Actor discussions (until March 2011) on their forums because of it. If THAT doesn't say Serious Business...
 * Pokémon Special. It's best not to talk about the characters in comparison to any of their counterparts, or shippings.
 * There's also a small break in terms of manga in general. Pokémon Diamond and Pearl Adventure or Pokémon Special? How do the other manga compare?
 * Gundam suffers this in spades. The stereotypical portrayal of the fandom is essentially older fans shouting "It's Popular, Now It Sucks", while the fans who got into the franchise through newer shows like Gundam Wing and Gundam Seed mock them for their True Art Is Angsty attitude. This attitude was a lot more prevalent in the early 2000s when Gundam Wing became many people's Gateway Series into both anime in general and Gundam in specific, but has cooled down a good bit.
 * On the other hand, every time a new series is revealed, expect half the fans to scream about how such-and-such plot element is lifted directly from an earlier Gundam series, while the other half sighs and says "It hasn't even come out yet, shut up and give it a fair chance."
 * Wing in particular has its own battle lines drawn, generally with three sides. Some old-school Gundam fans dismiss the show as plotless tripe intended to titillate female viewers, using plot elements outright stolen from older, better shows. The Yaoi Fangirls who appear to dominate the fandom only care about the cute boys to the exclusion of everything else, and because they're vocal, the first group and even non-fans tend to paint Wing as a Boys Love series despite the No Hugging, No Kissing and het Ship Tease laid out by Word of God. The last faction are the people who enjoy Wing honestly and are tired of being painted as idiots or drooling fangirls by (or because of) the above two groups.
 * And now that Gundam AGE is announced, many fans are upset Sunrise doesn't want to make a Grimdark Gundam.
 * Most of the story naysayers have been silenced with the release of the first few episodes which, while certainly not grimdark, were also not Lighter and Softer than typical Gundam. Rage over the "kiddy" art style still persists, however.
 * Yu-Gi-Oh! has a very broken fanbase, starting within the original series where fans dispute the canon-ness of Noa's Arc, DOMA, and the KC Grand Prix, with many fans arguing that non-manga arcs were never canon and should not have been made. Then after the original series ended, conflicts arose within and around its spinoffs, GX and 5D's. There are some who enjoyed GX, some who hated it from the very beginning, and some who watched it through then suddenly began talking about how much they hated it all along. Many GX fans say that it did not end as well as it should have, with some fans complaining that it was cut short to make room for 5D's. Even so, 5D's with its ridiculous motorcycle dueling premise was and is still laughed at and not taken seriously by fans of the original series. But 5D's, small fandom and all, has been generally more liked than GX, leading GX fans feeling like they were left out and that GX became the "bastard stepchild" of the franchise.
 * The within-fandom hate became so strong that fans of the spinoffs (who felt that their shows were never given a chance) began to call other fans purists (specifically the ones who solely love the "original" series and absolutely refuse to acknowledge the existence of the spinoffs, despite the fact that DM ended ages ago).
 * There is a small portion of the fandom that dislikes Little Kuriboh's Abridged Series (although they may have liked it at an earlier point in time), on the basis that it "twists" and "makes needless fun of the source material", with most likely unintended disservice to the spinoffs and their fanbases. (e.g. "I just realized what the "D" stands for in "Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's"! "DONTWATCHIT!" ")
 * Among that small portion of fandom are the cosplayers and con goers who are tired of having Abridged Series memes quoted/shouted at them by less...considerate...fans, to put it nicely. Then there are the Abridged Series fans who come to believe in false information, because they were misinformed by the man himself.
 * Death Note. Is Light Yagami a dark and interesting Anti-Hero whose plans for Utopia actually brings out actual benefits for the world, or an out and out Villain Protagonist who can border into Complete Monster territory? Was it right for the series to end with, or should he have  ? Is Near just a pale imitation of L or an interesting character in his own right? Is Matt/Mello inherently superior to Mello/Near? Does Misa really come between Light and L? Is it even worth continuing with after  ? One thing's for certain: you're probably better off not asking some of the fans.
 * Manga vs. Anime (which the main differences are in the ending and the general style, of which the anime is more, er, overdramatic) vs. Movies (where the entire second arc is cut and the ending drastically changed)? And do the Light Novels Another Note and/or L Change the World and/or the film L: Change the World count as canon or not?
 * Tenchi Muyo. Are the original OVAs the superior Tenchi series, or is Tenchi Universe better? Is the 3rd OVA legitimately good, okay but flawed, or a complete pile of crap? Is Tenchi in Tokyo a perfectly enjoyable spinoff, or is it a complete waste of time that flanderizes all of the characters? Is GXP a well-done sidestory that fleshes out the OVA's setting, or a fanservice-filled mess of epic proportions? Should Pretty Sammy be considered a Tenchi series? Should the Tenchi Muyo manga be considered canon? The world may never know.
 * The Endless Eight arc of The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya anime has sharply divided the once-strong fanbase. The main problem wasn't that it was adapted, it's that one small story was adapted into 8 full episodes with the exact same events each time, and that those 8 episodes took up the majority of the second season's episode count. Add in the fact that the fandom were expecting, after being teased that it would happen, that the series' probably most celebrated story arc would be adapted that season and instead got Endless Eight without being told how long it would last, so a lot of fans kept clinging to the hope that EE would end soon and the next arc would start, but with every new Endless Eight crushing that hope, well, you can probably see where some fans are coming from.
 * Unique in that it managed to not only split the fan base, but the entire cast and directing crew as well. Some people got in serious trouble over Endless Eight and the fan reaction.
 * Fans of Neon Genesis Evangelion split over which ending is "better": the original TV series ending or the one from End of Evangelion. Or whether these two are technically the same ending.
 * And this will likely turn into a three-way split once Rebuild of Evangelion ends, as one of the first things the writers said about it was that it would have a different ending.
 * Four-way if the manga has a different ending (which it probably will).
 * Good luck finding something Eva fans are NOT split over. Topics of contention include: meaning (or lack thereof) of the religious allusions; degree of sympathy (or lack thereof) for the characters (every. single. one.); quality (or lack thereof) of the English dub; and the specific meaning (or lack thereof) of the series itself. And those are just the biggies.
 * For that matter, the opinion of the series itself among anime fans varies widely. Is it the deepest, most psychologically mature anime ever made? A pretentious piece of self-indulgence from an emotionally unstable creator? A good, if flawed, series that deserves a place in the anime canon but whose themes have been done better elsewhere? Impossible to evaluate fairly due to the budget problems that came into play later in the series? Or simply too incomprehensible to be understood at all?
 * Fairy Tail fandom is extremely divided on the subject of Jellal Fernandez. A major player in Erza's backstory, he made his appearance in the Tower of Paradise arc, which concluded with the manga's hundredth chapter, . He has appeared in every single arc since then, in some form or another, and opinions are very mixed on if this is a good thing or not. One large segment of the fandom thinks that the unfolding drama is interesting, another thinks that he's worn out his welcome and needs to go away for good. Divisions are, unsurprisingly, very often drawn along fandom lines.
 * Bleach. Either you're for Ichigo/Orihime, Ichigo/Rukia or accused of being one of the two for raising an objection to a non-shipping related opinion given by a rabid shipper.
 * You know the base is broken when, on this very wiki, the exact same event is listed as both a Crowning Moment and an Anticlimax.
 * There's even more: Villainous Breakdown, was it a case of Villain Decay, or was it a believable Villainous BSOD that he only had coming? To elaborate, some say that his extreme arrogance, over-reliance on brute force and complete foregoing of tactics or his Zanpakuto's illusions once embedding the Hogyoku into his chest, as well as the desperate rants that came when he started getting curb-stomped, were not only bland and predictable, but served as a cheap ploy to make The Hero beating him easier--since he wouldn't use anything else that couldn't be beaten with brute force. They claim that he was stripped of everything that initially made him a convincing, interesting villain, because the author was too lazy to write around an consistently smart Final Boss.
 * However, on the other side, others claim that, only very rarely do villains portray serenity as they fall, and that their calm facade is shattered as reality hits them with a ton of bricks, reasoning that the even isn't any different. They even analyze that, if people take him losing his temper unbelievable, then the author maybe dragged out the Big Bad being an emotionless prick only capable of smirking and prone to making long, unnecessary lectures for too long.
 * Hayate the Combat Butler. Serious vs Comedy story. Athena/Anti-Athena.
 * The anime of Umineko no Naku Koro ni leaves fans somewhat... polarized. Whether it's an enjoyable anime and a decent adaptation, an enjoyable anime but a mediocre adaptation, or a downright awful adaptation that does not exist (seriously--there are people who do go as far to as to claim the anime never existed), is not an issue you really want to bring up, especially if you've only seen the anime.
 * The manga VS anime version of The Violinist of Hameln. The tone of the anime is very serious, whereas the manga is a dramedy, and most characters had a personality change. A lot of fans find the anime superior, whereas most fans of the manga will not talk about the TV series. The TV series is not canon, but the OVA is based off the anime, leading many fans of the TV series to likewise hate the OVA and pretend it doesn't exist, whereas fans of the OVA often hate the TV series.
 * Ultimate Hellsing/the manga VS the Hellsing TV series.
 * And then there's Alucard's relationship with Integra. Are they lovers? Is it a one-sided crush for either character? Do they end up together? Or are they purely master/servant? The fandom can't fully agree one way or another. It doesn't help that Kouta Hirano (the creator of Hellsing) himself is a fan of Alucard/Integra.
 * Dragon Ball. Which dub cast is better? The Ocean Group or FUNimation? (Or maybe the Blue Water cast?) Is the dub a well done Woolseyism or an outright Macekre? Is Bruce Faulconer's music better than Mark Menza's? Is Shunsuke Kikuchi's music better than Bruce Faulconer's? Is Kenji Yamamoto's music better than Shunsuke Kikuchi's? Is Dragon Ball a vital part of the story or a boring prequel to Dragonball Z? Is Dragon Ball Kai an improvement or an abomination? Should Toei Animation have made Dragon Ball GT? And we're still only at the tip of the iceberg here...
 * There's also the long standing debate about who's the strongest human - Krillin or Tien. The term is more often used in reference to Krillin, between video games saying so and Yamcha's actual declaration that Krillin's the strongest human in the Buu Saga. On the other hand Tien's battle accomplishments (though fewer as he's a much more minor character) often seem to some viewers as much more impressive than Krillin's.
 * To be fair, there is a good possibility that Tien isn't entirely human, making the statement that Krillin being the strongest human not so farfetched
 * The character of Broly has a very strong influence on the fanbase, sparking countless debates regarding his level of strength. He also has an astounding number of die-hard fanboys for a non-canon character.
 * There are still many debates about who is stronger between SSJ 3 Goku and Ultimate Gohan. The debate also extends to Super Buu vs Kid Buu.
 * Black Butler: Fans were hating on the second season even before it premiered. Now that it has  fans have divided themselves between the two duos.
 * Among Spanish speakers, Spain-Spanish subs vs. Latin America-Spanish subs (Dubs too, for that matter, but subs aim to the same audience, dubs to different ones). The Latin Americans will accuse Spanish dubs of being crappily done (When Latin American subs have an high percent of subs translated from English in a way too noticeable) while Spaniards will retort Latin American dubs use too much slang (While the most praised Spain-Spanish fansub group, AnimeUnderground, is just as bad, if not worse when it comes to using slang and swears) It's because of this subs in Neutral Spanish have showed up, which being more like Neutered Spanish, please nobody and only serve to prove the Golden Mean Fallacy. No wonder quite a few people Take a Third Option and use English subs, which are faster anyway. (But have their own issues...) It happens with basically every show. Latin Spanish has way too many differences with European Spanish you might wonder if it is still the same language, unlike American/British English, which is not THAT different.
 * Inside Latin America as well, it is debated which country makes better Dubs, and which one is more understandable. Each country has specific slang and terms that differ from other countries and often in regions of the same country, and attempts to keep the dubs neutral render rather ridiculous results often, with nobody at all understanding most of it. And as imaginable, each place has a different accent, and nobody can point to which is the most neutral. Big battles over which accent, Mexican, Venezuelan or Chilean is more enjoyable never end in agreement. Often, Argentina has its own dubbing, because it is the most different and specific kind of Spanish in the continent, they have trouble understanding the outside versions and the outsiders have a hell of a time trying to make out what that's supposed to mean.
 * The North American adaptation of the already controversial series Axis Powers Hetalia has cracked very wide fissures in its fandom, mainly in part due to some controversial liberties taken with the script. Reactions vary about these changes, but you're better off not asking for opinions on the dub due to some fans' tendency to derail discussions into vicious flame wars.
 * One Piece Try suggesting that maybe Boa Hancock, Perona, or Jimbei will be the next crewmate...or any character for that matter, and watch the fireworks.
 * This is pretty much over now that we know that at least two of them definitely aren't joining.
 * Or which Filler Arc was the best...though a general agreement is that the Apis Arc sucks.
 * Depending on what forum your on, hatred for Ace can run deep. Same goes for the monster trio. There's a sort of divide between Strawhat lovers and Supernova (minus Luffy and Zoro) lovers as well, in certain places.
 * Nanoha FORCE and Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha ViVid mangas. ViVid was well received, but a significant minority of readers who had been fans of StrikerS and the sci-fi direction the franchise had gone in looked down on it. Force, meanwhile, is rarely viewed with better than neutrality; it has almost completely ditched the Magical Girl elements, has a male protagonist (which set the Bishojo and Lolicon fans up in arms) and set off a Lensman Arms Race of Story Breaker Powers, which angered the science fiction half of the fandom.
 * The first split in the fanbase actually happened when StrikerS came out. Either you loved the new focus on the franchise's sci-fi elements or you hated that the Magical Girl half of the series was reduced to a few bells and whistles.
 * Super Dimension Fortress Macross versus Robotech wars sometimes occur. A bad example flared up on the MacrossWorld forums after AnimEigo announced they had squared the circle and cut the Gordian Knot and gained a license to release the original Macross on DVD. Numerous Robotech fans descended on the MW forums to complain that this somehow spelled the end of Robotech. Flame wars became frequent.
 * Macross Frontier now heads in the same direction, with the question whether the Non-Serial Movie variant is better than the anime series. Basically the question boils down to what is better (spoilers!)
 * Slayers has had several variations of the broken base. When it was at the height of its popularity in the mid/late 90's, there was fierce debate over the third anime season, Slayers TRY, which deviated from the first two seasons in a way (no Disc One Final Boss, Gray and Grey Morality on characters that were more black and white before, and somewhat downplayed humor) that was either unpleasing or highly enjoyable. Years later, when the fourth and fifth seasons finally came out, the "debate" came over whether these two seasons were the worst or not, as well as if the series was far past its prime (some reviewers argue this, and the fanbase naturally diminished as time passed). There's also its status as a whole: to reviewers and modern viewers, it's either a classic fantasy fanfare with great slapstick, or an old, convoluted clunker of a show that relies too much on said slapstick.
 * Planetes fandom, while mostly remaining genuinely civil, is still rather sharply divided over the anime/manga lines. While both sides generally admit both incarnations' strong points, many manga fans feel that anime is too melodramatic and tries to hide from the serious issues raised in the original behind the curtain of Wangst and slapstick. Anime fans, OTOH, often find the manga too cerebral and filled with Contemplate Our Navels moments, leaving it somewhat dry.
 * The Persona 4 anime. Things went well until we reached the anime renditions of the Shadow Kanji fight and the Horrible Camping Trip. Much, MUCH wank has ensued.
 * Zoids fandom used to be split between fans of Zoids: Chaotic Century and Zoids New Century. After Zoids Fuzors premiered, CC and NC fans alike used it as their go-to bashing target. Zoids Genesis further complicated things.
 * There's also a divide in the fandom between fans of the model kits/battle story and fans of the anime.
 * Humongous Mecha (both Super Robot and Real Robot) is either cheap plot device that steals the spotlight from the hero and allows him to win by it's power and not his skill or just cool machine that allows more awesome battles disliked mostly by people whose entire knowledge of the genre starts and ends with Neon Genesis Evangelion.
 * The Grand Finale of the Shugo Chara manga. Was it a fitting end to the series or just everyone getting Strangled by the Red String?
 * Amu: A complex, well-rounded character or blatant God Mode Sue?
 * Amu: A complex, well-rounded character or blatant God Mode Sue?