Hate Dumb



""I've been told that people who just hate stuff because the 'Cool Kids' told them to do so drop that behavior after high school... I took one look at the stuff said about Twilight, Justin Bieber, and Final Fantasy VII and I can tell you THAT certainly isn't true.""

- A post on a forum about this phenomenon.

Fandom can sometimes reach rather illogical levels. But let's face it, hating a thing can bring out the Jerkass in someone as much as liking it, especially on the internet. Actions that drop someone's IQ points to dangerously low levels can be inspired by hate as easily as by love.

Hate Dumb is the polar opposite of Fan Dumb, it always exists, and where there is Fan Dumb, there is Hate Dumb.

The Bottom Line is, it's okay to dislike a show/movie/game/book/character; but there are civil, socially acceptable ways of expressing that dislike, just like with expressing love for a character or medium.

Of course, much like Fan Dumb, Hate Dumb are usually just a Vocal Minority. Sometimes it's not even considered part of the hatedom. Most of them, including yourself (unless you actually do fit this trope, and you know if you are) are pretty respectful when it comes to critiquing a show or will simply just ignore it as they fully know that they won't enjoy the show and let the fans be.

As a footnote, to many a devoted fan, nearly every Hatedom for their fandom is a Hate Dumb. There is often a broad overlap between people who accuse others of being in a Hate Dumb and people who enjoy Complaining About People Not Liking the Show. Similar to many a devoted hater, nearly every Fandom for their hatedom is Fan Dumb. This goes to show the polar opposites of it.

The concept is closely related to Don't Shoot the Message.

Do not list this on a work's main page. Put it on the work's YMMV page. If the work doesn't have YMMV page yet, make it.

Not to be confused with Hatedom, which is the intelligent version of this trope.

Common variations of Hate Dumb:

 * Fan Haters: These cannot dislike a work and accept that it appeals to other people. How dare someone have such bad taste? They simply aren't content to live and let live. Fan Haters are prone to Blind Bashing fans and stereotyping them all into one or two categories of people (example: Celebrity magazines are only bought by gay men, morbidly obese middle aged housewives, and people who need to line their bird cages!). These people seem to see themselves as the "Average" demographic, and when someone likes something they don't, they become unable to see why. (The inverse happens, too) It doesn't matter whether most of the fandom fits this description or not. Often prone to making up stories about Fan Dumb Complaining About People Not Liking the Show. Many times, these people are acting like Fan Fiction and Fan Art itself is somehow affecting one's enjoyment of the series, or affects the actual quality of what the author's writing (Many of which have never read the fanfiction in the first place) of the show. Fan Haters may often judge a show's quality based entirely off of its fans, whilst ignoring the other Fan Dumb of their own interests. This may be justifiable under online-only games like Team Fortress 2, but these guys will often trash single-player only games like Grand Theft Auto on the basis of their fans. Mentioning any of the Fandom that's not fitting this stereotype will often result in something similar to No True Scotsman. In the minds of Fan Haters, there is no such thing as Fandom. There is only Fan Dumb.
 * Author Haters: These people may not hate the fans, per se, but they certainly hate the author of the work. While it's natural to be annoyed with someone who has brought a bad show into existence, these people take it so far that it seems to be a personal Roaring Rampage of Revenge. In extreme cases, death threats may ensue. Running the Asylum can justify some author hate, but only to a point. Of course whether the author is truly responsible for the contents of the work or changes in the adaptation, or was even truly the creator of the work, doesn't matter: Author haters will blame the head editor for stuff they couldn't have done, or a creator lower on the food chain for events caused by Executive Meddling.


 * Complaining About Shows You Don't Watch: These haters have never seen the show in question, but they still know they hate it. They will refuse to watch it at all. There isn't necessarily anything in the show itself that they would dislike, if only they would watch it -- Hype Aversion, or the trailer for the work has made them determined to avoid direct exposure.
 * Preemptive haters: These guys really hate something. They seem to know almost everything about the object of their hate. The problem is, the work they hate hasn't been released. Often, it hasn't even been finished. These people are basing their hatedom on previews, teasers, and miscellaneous information floating around about the unreleased project; from it, they have constructed a picture of something they loathe intensely. This is more common in the internet age, since people can get all sorts of false information (and true info, for that matter) from Fan Dumb and other Hate Dumb; and when release dates are staggered, there can be preemptive haters on the same board as people who do have access to the work. Remakes of works are frequent targets of this -- people anticipate Adaptation Decay. On the bright side, the odds of getting a preemptive hater to see the work when the time comes is better than that for someone complaining about a extant show they don't watch.


 * The Foe Yay Fans: They hate the show. They hate every one of the 42 hours per week they spend watching it. They hate every one of the 49 hours per week they spend blogging about it. They hate the crappy merchandise and only buy it all so that they can get a deeper knowledge of the many ways it's bad... It's the opposite of Complaining About Shows You Don't Watch. Being informed about the work so one isn't accused of Complaining About Shows You Don't Watch is good, but this hater takes it overboard by spending more time obsessing over their object of hate than the fans do. Expect some of these people to use the Insane Troll Logic that somehow, because this show is still on, it affects the quality of the shows that they like. Corporate creators love this kind of Hate Dumb better than a lukewarm fandom -- it's more profitable, and gives them free advertisement. (They spread the show word of mouth, people actually see it to see how bad it really is...you get the picture.) In a nutshell; this is the kind of person who claims to have been lost as a customer; yet they keep buying from you again and again...and sometimes even brings in new customers who try out of Bile Fascination and discover Critical Backlash instead.
 * I Was Just Passing Through: Foe Yay fans who claim, not just that they hate the show, but that they've found something better. Yet, no matter what, they are true to their original Hate Dumb despite the new show. Their perverse attachment to the old hated work is often stronger than that to the show they claim to be a fan of -- assuming they aren't Gushing About Shows They Don't Watch. These customers are like the above; but they make sure to let you know that your competitors are better...yet for some reason keep going back to you.
 * The Revenge Troll: This is a hater who is Foe Yay indeed, but they appear to have taken their hatred to personal levels. This may overlap with the Author Haters as well. Expect them to constantly wish for the work's demise, or for the author to retire, obsessing about it like they want revenge on something. They may often misblame the object of their hatred to have caused their favourite show to be canceled, or act more like the show or the author snuck into their house at night and murdered their family while they slept. However; in the more extreme examples, some people will even cross the Moral Event Horizon, wishing not just cancellation on the show but wishing for the author or the creators of the show to have terrible things happen to them in real life. This is even more off-putting because they are wishing this on real people, not just fictional characters.


 * Hipster Hater: Often a Foe Yay fan. They insist that their obsession with the object of their hate is "ironic", or insist that any work which becomes mainstream has "sold out" and cannot be True Art: if it's popular, it sucks. They cannot be an acknowledged fan to a popular work, so they are this instead. This tends to overlap with business hatred, too. Many of these guys will buy alternate brand names or other such stuff to "Stick it to the man". Expect many of these people to complain about businesses trying to make a profit, such as saying it is "unforgivable" that businesses *gasp* have terms of service or ask money for their works. Corporate creators have no problems with this sort of Hatedumb, either.
 * The Art Critic: Holy crap, look at this [insert media here]! It's got action and no drama and no symbolism! It's trash appealing to the Lowest Common Denominator and the reason (insert culture here) is turning into morons! There's no art in it! Some decry video games for "instant gratification" or music for shallow lyrics, but regardless, they'll sound like stereotypes of snobby art-house types. Sometimes, these guys are even more harsh on works that are distributed for free or something they pirated like video games or movies.


 * Pop Culture Snob: The opposite of the Hipster Hater, they actively avoid anything outside a narrow range of popular shows. Anything foreign is "too weird." Anything Sci Fi is meaningless and geeky. Anything over five years old is "for old people". Anything involving an animal must be Yiff. Often overlaps with Complaining About Shows You Don't Watch. The inverse of It's Popular, Now It Sucks. Their battle cry is It's Unpopular, So It Sucks.


 * The Rival Fan: This hater loves a work. Just... not this one. They belong to some fandom with a long-standing rivalry with the work they don't like. They tend to insist that the object of their hate is a shoddy knockoff of their show, even when it's completely different. They also insist that No True Fan of their show could ever like both their show and the show they hate. These guys may often invoke accusations of other works attempting to ride on their show's popularity or success This overlaps with Fan Dumb. It can also happen within fandoms. Compare the haters who think everything is the same; they could perhaps be called twin Hate Dumb.
 * Overlapping very heavily with this is the Hypocrite fan. This type of fan is from Fandom Rivalry more often than not, but they often hate trait(s) of other shows/genres, but at the same time, their own work does the exact same thing, too.


 * The Hate Monger: A kind of Hate Dumb that exists around specific characters within a work. They may or may not be a fan of that work itself, but they will not tolerate the existence of the specific characters at all. Whenever the character is even put into focus, the hater will be the first to cry "Spotlight-Stealing Squad!" They also use the "Mary Sue" label as a weapon and declare the character they do not like a Mary Sue. It does not matter if the character really is a Mary Sue; nor does it matter if the hate monger has any idea what a Mary Sue is supposed to be -- these people have devalued the term. Even if they are right about the character taking too much screentime, their hatred of that character impairs their common sense. They will not allow the character to have fans if they can help it. Hate Mongers have also been known to call "Wangst" (or a synonym thereof) on someone being justifiably sad... Sometimes, the Hate Monger is a bitter result of Die for Our Ship or Fandom Rivalry around a specific character, hating a character because they want to see more of one they like. The Scrappy is a common target by definition. Someone who tends to be made a Draco in Leather Pants is also a frequent target, even if the voice of moderation tries to speak up. Often a subset of The Mad Bride/Groom, as pairings and OT Ps tend to have someone lose out.
 * The Mad Homophobe: A type of Hate Monger who frequently throws around accusations of homosexuality, mostly Gay. Typically, this is the first thing they say about a character, is that they are gay with little justifications. Someone is best friends with a member of the same sex? They're gay lovers. Someone isn't interested in romance? They're gay. Someone is Asexual? They're gay. Someone is masculine? They're gay. Guy is Bishounen? He's gay. Anyone was portrayed as gay by Fans? They're canonically gay. Often bizarre versions of Love Makes You Hateful - they'll be fine with any romance as long as it's not gay. If it is - oops, not for kids, or HOLY FUCK NOT CANON!!
 * Love Makes You Hateful: A mutation of The Mad Bride/Groom, these are usually self-proclaimed ex-fans who ragequit fandom when their favorite pairing was jossed, or worse, made fun of - whether or not the creator actually insulted pairings or not. Hate Fic, Die for Our Ship, all those good fandom-ruining stereotypes can be traced back to these brand of crazies.


 * Bandwagon Hater: Opposes this work, but only as long as it's the trendy thing to do. This hater is always on the lookout for Acceptable Targets, not because they truly hate them, but because it's fun to complain and no fun to do it alone. Sometimes, the Bandwagon Hater will like the Acceptable Target but deny having anything but hate towards it. More often than not, these people may have even been fans of the show, especially in shows where it was trendy to like it, but then it became trendy to hate it. A very good way of spotting this if any Caustic Critic releases a scathing review, or if the majority of a fanbase of popular forum hates it, even if they had previously liked the work, and afterwords, start carbon-copying their opinions, sometimes word for word. In extreme cases, they may have no opinions of their own. The inverse happens in Fan Dumb, as well. Essentially; this is what the page quote is; the person who hates something not because they genuinely dislike it but because the "cool kids" told them to.


 * He Panned It Now It Sucks: Similar to the Bandwagon Hater, except it's done more out of because someone they're a fan of hated it, than out of a desire to fit in -- which means that this hater takes it far more seriously than the bandwagon hater does. If the Creator in question mentions that they hate something, then this person will immediately and loudly proclaim their hatred of it regardless of how they felt about it before. Never tell this type of fan that you enjoy both the creator's work and the work that the creator hates. If you do, then the worst of these haters will fly off the handle and assert that you can't be a true fan of the creator and still enjoy the other work. Common with fanbases of Caustic Critics.


 * The Willfully Blind: Yes, these exist in Hate Dumb too. Similar to the willfully blind in Fan Dumb, the Hate Dumb variety will refuse to acknowledge any potential strengths or possibly even anything that was done correctly. The willfully blind may also try and convince everyone else to Hand Wave the strengths because they do not exist. They are prone to Accentuate the Negative arguments or reviews. Sometimes, they may have a single issue about the work and hate it solely because of that -- usually because they stopped watching afterwards. Expect even in-depth reviews written by this hater to discuss only the parts they know and can't stand. Even if the production staff ran every decision by them, they would complain about how they "weren't asked enough". No matter what, the willfully blind will fixate on a single flaw or any weaknesses.


 * The Genre Alien: The Genre Alien is a rather amusing hater, a less focused version of the Foe Yay variety. They will make it clear that they utterly hate a genre, or a series. Nevertheless, they seek works in that genre out. They see examples of it and then complain how much it sucks. Interestingly, they are likely to criticize stuff that makes the genre what it is. (For instance, they might complain about kiss scenes in romance movies, blood and swearing in Die Hard, or soft rock band America not being "heavy enough".) They may be constructive, or attempt to be constructive, but when they start complaining about Fundamental Genre tropes as "weaknesses" or suggest rewriting the show in its entirety and changing the story to fit how they would view it as an improvement, (This is not considered constructive criticism in the creative writing field) then it pretty much stops being constructive criticism and starts to veer into "Destructive Criticism" territory. This brings out a subspecies called The Mad Editor.
 * The Mad Editor: This is a subspecies of the above. This person frequently suggests a complete rewrite of the work, but they view it as improving it, even if it involves Flanderizing or Bowlderizing the work, completely derailing the characters, or complete genre-shifts and abandoning the work in its entirety. This very often overlaps with the Periphery Hate Dumb. These people often break out in vicious flamewars with types of Fan Dumb, making it hard to discern who is who. Remember; constructive criticism is an attempt to tell the creator how they can do it better the way they want to, not how you want to.


 * Everything is the same: These haters are commonly known for having a minimalistic view of fandoms they don't belong to. Sometimes, entire franchises or genres will attract these types of haters. They will pull the "It's the exact same as this"-card, sometimes without even seeing it. They sometimes have no moderate or casual likes; they view everything they aren't an outright fan of narrowly. For instance, somebody who does not like High-School dramas might view every show set in high school as being like Degrassi. Note that, in such a case, it is possible that they like Degrassi and just think all the others are redundant (since they're the same) and thus pointless -- in which case, they're likely a Rival Fan. Many times, they invoke the "They Copied It, So It Sucks" card and accuse everything of being a ripoff of something they consider quality.


 * "Stop Having Fun!" Guys: The "Stop Having Fun!" Guys will insist that everyone else is doing it wrong. They not only hate the other fans who enjoy it a specific way, but will also insult other haters. These people are often known for having very specific single-issue criteria when they pick something new, which causes them to have ridiculously high standards. In the worst cases, they'll join a Hatedom because the work they tried to be a fan of was too...different from what they normally like; instead of trying to adapt, they claim it to be crap and that everyone who likes it doesn't know what true fun is. Some of these people will go on tangents explaining one situation they had with a game and then insisting the entire game is like that. Many times; the hatred of new editions, updates, or sequels consist of these people who complain about how the developers are "punishing skill" amongst other things because they assessed widely exploited glitches and shortcomings. Read the article for some more specific examples.


 * Nostalgia Inversion: Nostalgia Inversion is when Hype Backlash, Seinfeld Is Unfunny,and Did Not Do the Research mix. The hater refuses to realize that something wasn't made in the present day, and refuses to make allowance for it. They cannot put themselves in the correct mindset to watch a work made before its genre got deconstructed. Or they expect special effects to look the same in the '50s as in the '00s.
 * The opposite is the Nostalgia Filter. You will notice that we have a trope for this - because it is such a common behaviour to trash on the modern stuff and idealize the stuff you liked when you were younger, because it's skewed through the years that you only remember the good parts - not the fact that there was a Periphery Hatedom for something that was marketed to you at age six. Not the fact that even adults were criticising it for the same reasons you criticize the modern stuff for...only the good parts, ie, the pros. For a more in-depth example, check the article, but this is an unfortunate type because it's being so propagated and encouraged in fandom.


 * Anne (or Andy) Titlement: Anne Titlement is a type of hater who claims that nobody makes the kinds of work they enjoy anymore, or that there isn't enough of it. Any examples of that work or related works (by genre or by creator sometimes) have already been enjoyed and Anne Titlement wants more. Well, that's valid, right? Not when it means you begin viciously attacking everything else. This type of hater is shocked, shocked that something was made without them in mind. And if you are a fan of such a work, then it's your fault that nothing "good" is made anymore. Anne Titlement often views things through a sharp Nostalgia Filter. In their mind, hating something is never their fault. Unfortunately, this type of entitlement is practically encouraged in Film and Video Games.
 * A subset of the above, The Periphery Hate Dumb: This is someone who clearly hates something, yet it should be obvious why - It clearly wasn't made with their demographic in mind. Most people actually hate on something that wasn't made for them (Works developed for young children most come to mind, followed closely by stuff that is known for targeting the opposite gender), so you would honestly think they would ignore it, right? Nope. Part of the reason this hatedom came into being was when parents decided to watch the shows their kid watched and, as natural, because it wasn't made for them (Same way most shows parents enjoy aren't made for chidren) they disliked it. Unfortunately this has caused it to be associated with Maturity, meaning that in an effort to be "cool" and look "mature", people often deny any association to that show made for younger children. This sometimes overlaps with the Culture Alien in that they often come up with complaints about the show that is pretty much what makes it a kid/boy/girl-friendly show in the first place, and taking their constructive criticisms seriously would result in an In Name Only show that's a complete genre shift, as is the Mad Editor.


 * The Crusader: Hating something is Serious Business to these people; it is practically their life's mission is to spread the message of Hatedom around. The Crusader is frequently launching Holy wars against forums, sometimes even organizing spam-raids on forums, or frequently derailing threads to state why they think it sucks.


 * The Purist: One of the most wide encompassing forms of Hate Dumb, and arguably, an unholy abomination of multiple kinds of Haters rolled into one entitled person. Purists have an ideal vision on how a franchise can go, but sometimes, Purists can go several steps beyond just having an ideal view of a franchise. The Purist can also have an idealized view of the fandom of a particular franchise, and even in worst cases, the entire market. Naturally, many of these guys tend to hate franchises based solely off of the fans themselves, often citing the fandom as one of the reasons they dislike a franchise, sometimes not even giving it a chance. The Purist also does not stop at just hating fans, but also, they believe that they are the centre (And largest contributer) of the entire market, thus, any and all executive decisions should not be made without consulting them first. Any new demographic being brought into the market, or a simple shift in demographic will not only get the Fan Dumb crying, but also the haters, because they will hate these newcomers to the market with almost every passion of their being. Because The Purist has a very idealised vision of their own fandom; naturally, they are often the type to declare new fans to "not be true fans" of the series, any new entries to "not be true entries". VERY prone to They Changed It, Now It Sucks-type arguments. There are also versions of the Purist who will simply point out any shift/expansion in demographic to be a reason why it sucks. Amongst long essays about how new Johnny-Come-Latelys have ruined the market/fandom/show forever, as well as how it was better when it wasn't popular, also expect Slippery Slope type arguments about why it is bad, and how they expect Follow the Leader to come against them. (Once more, mentioning a similar argument about any Follow the Leader type stuff against your interests will not be responded to, at best, or countered with an essay on how wrong you are and how you have no taste, if not a Hand Wave.)


 * Stealth Fans: These are not truly haters, but rather fans, who appeal to the large Hatedom of their object of obsession in order to spread the word. They will derail every thread, come up with the lamest of jokes and in general, will do anything to put the alleged object of their hate into the center of attention. Fan Haters will generally take the bait, and what was before a previously completely unrelated topic, will now be derailed into a discussion over how horrible that certain thing is. Not only does the corporate world love these guys, many of them are actually corporate agents themselves, actively involved in viral marketing.


 * The Science Snob: People with a Willing Suspension of Disbelief thinner than a razor. One "inaccuracy" will cause them to scream Did Not Do the Research and makes the show a pile of unwatchable dreck and "not properly researched", regardless of whether or not they did the research themselves and watched the damn media in question. Very commonly blind to Acceptable Breaks From Reality, and may often be found complaining about "unrealistic" aspects of the shows. Sometimes, someone will respond to their claims with "in a show where people can do magic, I don't think they're really going for realism, here."


 * The PC Crusader:: If there's a minority in a work of fiction, it's racist, homophobic, sexist trash. These sort of people will see multitudes and multitudes of oppressive, racist/sexist/homophobic in depictions of minorities, regardless of how well they're treated, and no matter how said minority is treated, the PC Crusader will find a way to make the author sound like they followed Jim Crow laws. Black character who happens to help the protagonists somehow? Magical Negro. A feminine woman? Real Women Never Wear Dresses! And so on and so forth. Some ironically stereotype entire mediums because of certain works displaying misogyny/homophobia (it's okay to stereotype when we do it!) and others grasp at straws to get offended.
 * The Un-PC Crusader: What's that? There's people saying this show isn't racist/sexist/homophobic? Bitches should get back in the kitchen/faggots go suck dick/niggers get enslaved! The Un-PC Crusader will, at the slightest hint of their formerly favorite shows displaying supposed Political Correctness Gone Mad, exercise their right to free speech by being horribly racist and take it as a sign of the pussification of society, where women were barefoot and in the kitchen. These sort and the PC Crusader will constantly fight over the slightest hint of a show not sucking up to their views on minorities.


 * The Anti-Romantic: The bizarro version of The Mad Bride/Groom, any hint of shipping or romance in the fandom will send them into a frothing rage instead of a squee of fangirl glee. You can see these species endlessly lambasting a fandom upon catching a whiff of fan-made pairings, blaming tween girls and other scapegoats for their departure from fandom/why they refuse to associate with fans. Often just as stupid as rabid shippers themselves. They infest all works, regardless of whether or not the actual work itself has romance or otherwise.